Monster & Treasure Assortments for levels 10+?

[geoffrey]

The old Monster & Treasure Assortments cover levels 1 through 9. Can anyone point to anything that continues the progression? Just off the top of my head, some monsters not even in the level 9 list (presumably because they are too powerful) are type VI demons, iron golems, beholders. and liches. There is a definite hole that needs filling there!

[grodog]

Pacesetter Games did some versions of the M&TA contents, but not beyond level 6: yhst-130618215627926.stores.yahoo.net/damotrasli.html

Offhand, I can't think of anyone who's built M&TAs beyond level 9, Geoffrey.

Allan.

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2020 18:33:48 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

The old Monster & Treasure Assortments cover levels 1 through 9. Can anyone point to anything that continues the progression? Just off the top of my head, some monsters not even in the level 9 list (presumably because they are too powerful) are type VI demons, iron golems, beholders. and liches. There is a definite hole that needs filling there!

I've always looked at the "Monster Levels" in M&T as a bit of an abstraction. That the 4th Level monster list doesn't map directly to the 4th physical level of a dungeon. That they are more like Challenge Ratings. This idea comes from the chart on Vol 3 pg 10 and a similar one on DMG pg 174 were the Monster Levels top out at specific numbers (6 for OD&D and 10 for AD&D). Basically, when using M&T, 9th level is the top and every apex monster goes on that list (in a similar way to the wilderness charts).

To expand on this idea, I use Monster Level for outdoors adventuring as well: Levels 1-3 represent civilized areas, Levels 4-6 are the "Borderlands" and Levels 7-9 are the true wilderness.

[geoffrey]

Feb 10, 2020 9:03:04 GMT -6 @hedgehobbit said:

I use Monster Level for outdoors adventuring as well: Levels 1-3 represent civilized areas, Levels 4-6 are the "Borderlands" and Levels 7-9 are the true wilderness.

That's awesome.

[yesmar]

Feb 5, 2020 18:33:48 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

The old Monster & Treasure Assortments cover levels 1 through 9. Can anyone point to anything that continues the progression? Just off the top of my head, some monsters not even in the level 9 list (presumably because they are too powerful) are type VI demons, iron golems, beholders. and liches. There is a definite hole that needs filling there!

I never bothered with the monsters, but I did figure out the progression for treasures appearing on levels 10–12 back in 2018. I was inspired by TFoster's excellent [D&D] Assorted Monsters and Treasures blog post, wherein he reverse engineered the tables used to generate the treasures appearing in Sets One–Three. Working from that data as a basis, I intuited the following set of tables for generating the treasures found in the mythical Set Four:

Level Ten
Copper — 10,000 + 1d10 × 100
Silver — 9,000 + 1d10 × 100
Electrum — 7,000 + 1d8 × 100
Gold — 5,000 + 1d6 × 100
Platinum — 700 + 1d6 × 50
Gems — 10d4
Jewelry — 1d12
Magic — 1d6*

Level Eleven
Copper — 11,000 + 1d10 × 100
Silver — 10,000 + 1d10 × 100
Electrum — 8,000 + 1d12 × 100
Gold — 6,000 + 1d6 × 100
Platinum — 800 + 1d6 × 50
Gems — 11d4
Jewelry — 1d12
Magic — 1d6*

Level Twelve
Copper — 12,000 + 1d10 × 100
Silver — 11,000 + 1d10 × 100
Electrum — 9,000 + 1d10 × 100
Gold — 7,000 + 1d6 × 100
Platinum — 900 + 1d6 × 50
Gems — 12d4
Jewelry — 1d20
Magic — 1d8*

* If a treasure includes two potions, it is 50% likely the second potion is of the same type as the first. If three or more potions are included, the third and subsequent are rolled normally for type.

[Deleted]

That's a really logical extension of how the math works in Monsters & Treasure and if I assume the levels beyond 9 continue to use the same logic as the first 9, that would be what I would adopt.

However, as of right now my deepest dungeon only goes to level 8 and is conveniently flooded beyond there as a dirty trick to give me time to make more up as the players figure out how to tackle that. I'm somewhat torn between going the conventional route or something weirder. I have this romantic notion that once you cross a certain threshold the dungeon becomes even more alien and strange. Maybe you start picking up things from previous ages or even other universes. Maybe things from alternative pasts that never were, or many alternative futures.

Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson were fond of hiding laser guns and power armor in their worlds, for instance. I kind of like the idea that if you're going to level 13 of a dungeon or something, you're already more than wealthy enough to retire to a stronghold and it's some supernatural obsession that transcends treasure that motivates you to delve deeper. Like a voice or drum beat only you can hear and when you reach the source, you're never the same again. What comes back to the surface isn't what went in.