clairvoyance and clairaudience

[tetramorph]

How do you guys run clairvoyance and clairaudience?

Does the caster see and hear through some other sentient being?

Or is it like casting one's sight and hearing towards a distance?

In other words, is it like a drone or like sensing through someone else?

How then does this relate to crystal ball?

Could we say that a crystal ball is a clairvoyance magic item?

Could you cast clairaudience through it?

Thanks for your input.

[delta]

Note that in OD&D clairvoyance and clairaudience reference ESP ("Clairvoyance: Same as ESP spell except the spell user can visualize rather than merely pick up the thoughts."). Here's my blog post comparing those spells together through various editions.

I think that the "see an area through the eyes of any single creature in it" is unique to the Moldvay/Cook rules, and I think it's one of their rare misfires in rules edits. There's no hint of a requirement like that in OD&D or Gygax's later AD&D (or any descendant edition after that). Note also that in OD&D it would seem to share ESP's very limited range of 6" (60'; retained in B/X), but from AD&D 1E on, any range limitation seems to be removed ("Distance is not a factor, but the locale must be known, i.e. a place familiar to the spell caster or an obvious one").

So I'm not in favor of the "see an area through the eyes of any single creature in it" interpretation. It seems fiddly and unnecessary and a really strict limitation on a spell that's already pretty limited at 60' range (esp., compared to later editions that felt okay with greatly expanding it instead).

On separate literary-theme consideration, we could consider what the best intent or inspiration for the spells is. If I look at real-world paranormal understandings for clairvoyance and remote viewing, I don't see any stock expectation that one is looking through another's eyes to get information. Maybe one of Moldvay/Cook ran into a story like that at one point and inserted it into B/X, but if so I think that's a nonstandard interpretation. In summary, I would ignore that idea and just treat it as a (short-range) remote sensor.

Edit: I just realized that in OD&D, clairaudience explicitly declares that it can be cast through a crystal ball ("This is one of the few spells which can be cast through a Crystal Ball (see Volume II)"; Vol-1, p. 25.) Kind of embarrassed I didn't see that at first. In AD&D that's not the case and the power is reserved for special exotic crystal balls.

[hamurai]

Dec 21, 2019 15:10:07 GMT -6 tetramorph said:

How do you guys run clairvoyance and clairaudience?

Does the caster see and hear through some other sentient being?

Or is it like casting one's sight and hearing towards a distance?

In other words, is it like a drone or like sensing through someone else?

In this comparison, like a drone. It's like in the RTS computer games when you lift the fog of war at some point of the map and can see what's going on there, for a while. At least that's how we play it

Dec 21, 2019 15:10:07 GMT -6 tetramorph said:

How then does this relate to crystal ball?

Could we say that a crystal ball is a clairvoyance magic item?

Could you cast clairaudience through it?

That's pretty much exactly how we play it.

As a personal addition from my "evil" DM self, I ruled that Crystal Balls are more or less like open gateways unless protected by additional spells, which means that cunning mages may use a Crystal Ball to spy through another - think of it like a hacked web cam which you can access through another of its type if you know how to do it.

Also, spirits and demons and other things from Beyond may gaze through the ball into our world.

That's why scryers tend to cover them with a cloth when they're not using them.

[waysoftheearth]

For me these spells are just improvements over ESP. Given Clairvoyance and Clairaudience ultimately have similar impacts on the game, I prefer them as a single spell (FWIW, in DD5 I call it "Clairvoyeur").

In meta gamey terms ESP enables the caster to detect the presence of thinking creatures on the other side of a door or wall, whereas Clairvoyeur enables the caster to sense whatever thinking creatures up to 6" away are seeing and/or hearing on the other side of a door or wall.

So while ESP informs the caster that there may be trouble beyond this door (kinda like an infallible "listen at the door" check), Clairvoyeur provides the caster with more detail on kind of trouble it might be (i.e., is it a couple of goblins or a dozen trolls?).

In either case, these enable the spell user to "detect" something so--from that perspective--they're not unlike the detect magic, detect invisible, and similar spells...

[talysman]

For me, clairvoyance and clairaudience are definitely not spells that create magical drones. Wizard Eye is the drone spell and would seem kind of pointless if clairvoyance did the same thing.

So they are definitely "sense what another being senses" (clairsentience) spells. But are they restricted to what a single being senses? I'm willing to allow either spell to check any nearby area within 60 feet for the duration. Might even allow the caster to move while the spell is in effect, allowing more area to be revealed.

Edit to add: I guess I should point out that Wizard Eye is a 4th level spell. I think it's important to note the progression:

- 2nd level: reveal thinking creatures (ESP) or enemies (Detect Evil)
- 3rd level: reveal surroundings of thinking creatures (Clairvoyance, Clairaudience)
- 4th level: reveal areas regardless of whether they are being observed (Wizard Eye)