Turning undead again

[harlandski]

Just to say I've read this thread: odd74.proboards.com/thread/13206/undead-turning-salems-lot and found it very enlightening.

Having just experienced a TPK to four ghouls in my solo OD&D dungeon crawl (using the tables in The Strategic Review 1(1)), I wanted to ask how people handle turning undead, especially allowing a second attempt. As I was trying to imagine the situation, I had my two clerics hold up their crosses and try to banish the creatures (I was imagining turning in terms of making them go away), then when this failed, they led the melee against them, until they were paralyzed that is.

So my main question is if people allow clerics to try to turn more than once, and how this was done in the early days.

I'm also interested to know if people award XP for turned undead (again assuming they go away and are not just temporarily held back).

For those people who use Chainmail turn-counterturn form of initiative, I'm also interested to know where you put turning undead. I've made the decision to let all spells happen during the missile phase (as fireballs and lighting bolts in Chainmail), and thought turning undead most logically goes here, as it operates at a distance.

Related question: Do you let clerics then melee if they've turned that turn (sorry).

By the way there was nowhere to run to - running has been my default reaction up ghouls, but we were caught up a dead-end.

[aldarron]

This Discussion Link doesn't address all your questions but it covers most of it. It is my discussion of the Twin Cities methods BitD.

[Starbeard]

I can't answer for the early days, but here's the way I've decided to do it, for now anyway:

1) I backpaddle the B/X rules on turning attempts, so you can keep trying as long as you're successful, but once you fail then that group of monsters will be unaffected until you encounter them again in a different situation.

2) I don't think I've ever awarded xp for turned undead, and probably wouldn't in the future; if it were me, I'd try my best to turn a undead groups into an inexhaustible supply of xp by walking back to the graveyard every day and turning them away.

3) I do use Chainmail move/counter initiative (which, if I'm honest, almost always comes out identical to using simultaneous initiative, or even classic Igo-Yougo). I think I've always put both turning and spells in the artillery phase, but force the 2d6 roll to cast your spell successfully if you are caught in melee or shot at in the first missile phase. I've never required a roll to see if your turn gets 'spoiled' from combat, though.

4) I've always treated turning as a form of attack/spellcasting.

5) If the undead have nowhere to run, I will typically have them cower in the corner, still defending against anyone who tries to melee with them, but otherwise cowering from the cleric with no action. In this situation I also require the cleric to maintain the turn so long as the undead are still in sight. If the cleric retreats, the undead will follow and bide their time, but not attack so long as the turn is held.

[Finarvyn]

I'm sure that Gronan or some other weighed in on how Turn Undead was done back in the day. My search-fu has failed, as has my memory, but I'm pretty sure some really cool ideas were discussed here at some point.

[peterlind]

My take on your questions:

1. Usually not more than once per combat vs. a group of undead (if a turn attempt is unsuccessful, you might consider running away). Otherwise, GM's call. For example, if a new group of undead enters the combat, then I would allow a new turn attempt against them.

2. I would award XP for having defeated the undead by turning them.

3. I would have a cleric's turn attempt to be his or her action for the round. The cleric may start melee on the following round.

[talysman]

Dec 29, 2018 19:42:51 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

I'm sure that Gronan or some other weighed in on how Turn Undead was done back in the day. My search-fu has failed, as has my memory, but I'm pretty sure some really cool ideas were discussed here at some point.

I believe I remember Gronan saying a cleric couldn't try to turn the same undead twice, but I don't recall the details.

These days, a lot depends on how you interpret what "turning undead" means, or for that matter what "ghoul paralysis" is. For the latter, I believe someone raised a point previously that Chainmail makes Heroes and Elves immune to ghoul paralysis and allows them to free paralyzed troops, making it more like being paralyzed with fear rather than paralyzed by magic or poison. As for turning undead, I don't think of that as magic or miracle, but a test of faith; undead will avoid or flee a true representative of divine will. So, if a cleric fails on a turn undead roll, the undead laugh and slap the puny mortal aside, much like that scene in the Salem's Lot miniseries.

I wouldn't give clerics XP for turning undead, since the party may encounter those particular undead again.

[harlandski]

Thanks everyone. Having read this and other threads, I think I'm going to run turning as "make 'em cower", whilst the rest of the party gets to use ranged weapons against them, or run away. I'm going to make the cleric test for turning during the artillery phase, but have to do so every combat round. Once his or her faith falters, it's melee or flight.

[chicagowiz]

I echo those who award XP for turning undead, but then, I also award XP for monsters successfully captured, or somehow dealt with in such a way that they'll never be encountered again. If the undead return, or are encountered again, I wouldn't award XP again.