|
Post by tetramorph on Jul 17, 2018 8:27:52 GMT -6
What does it mean that the spell, Dispel Magic, has a duration of 1 turn?
Does this mean it takes a turn to cast it?
Or does this mean that the magic is only dispelled for one turn?
Or is this just a mess-up?
Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Jul 17, 2018 16:38:01 GMT -6
The way I read it: Dispel Magic, when activated, attempts to cancel any currently active spells, and suppresses other spell casting for one turn.
|
|
|
Post by tetramorph on Jul 17, 2018 17:40:28 GMT -6
What does it mean that the spell, Dispel Magic, has a duration of 1 turn? How I run it: you may cast it and “hold” the effect for a turn. After a turn the spell effect must be directed at a target or it will dissipate. okay, but I thought the spell always had a target. So help me imagine what you mean.
|
|
|
Post by tetramorph on Jul 17, 2018 17:41:31 GMT -6
The way I read it: Dispel Magic, when activated, attempts to cancel any currently active spells, and suppresses other spell casting for one turn. Oh, I like the idea that the 1 turn duration is about a cancelling of casting by memorized spells for about 10 minutes. That is crazy cool.
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Jul 17, 2018 19:20:00 GMT -6
The way I read it: Dispel Magic, when activated, attempts to cancel any currently active spells, and suppresses other spell casting for one turn. Oh, I like the idea that the 1 turn duration is about a cancelling of casting by memorized spells for about 10 minutes. That is crazy cool. Men & Magic doesn't specify whether Dispel Magic has a single target or targets an area. However, by the time AD&D rolls around, the area of effect is the official rule. AD&D, on the other hand, lists the duration as Permanent, referring to the spell effect... which I interpret as an instantaneous effect, without the 10 minute effect I described.
|
|
|
Post by Zenopus on Jul 17, 2018 20:51:04 GMT -6
FWIW, the spell table in Swords & Spells confirms the 1 turn duration (and 12" range), and adds a 3" diameter area of effect. This is the same area given for Dispell Evil in Men & Magic, which also equates the two spells: "Similar to a Dispell Magic spell, this allows a Cleric to dispell any evil sending or spell within a 3" radius". It functions immediately. Duration: 1 turn".
Putting this together, I would interpret Dispell Magic as immediately neutralizing any "enchantments" (which is the term it uses) in the area of effect, and then any further cast in the area of effect for 1 turn. The spell specifies it does not neutralize magic items, but one might need to rule on what an "enchantment" is. I would tend to go with a spell that has a duration of effect on an item or creature, and thus spells like Magic Missile or Fireball would not qualify.
The 6th level M-U spell Anti-Magic Shell protects from all spell types for the duration (12 turns). Swords & Spells gives it a 1" area of effect.
The Protection from Magic Scroll also protects from all magic functions (in or out) for the duration (8 turns), and is specified as having a 1" radius area of effect.
These two are also more powerful than DM because they are 100% effective, whereas DM has a chance of failure based on the levels of the two casters.
|
|
|
Post by tetramorph on Jul 18, 2018 7:50:36 GMT -6
Sure, Piper, but when are we ever going to game together again! ;)
|
|
|
Post by tetramorph on Jul 18, 2018 7:53:52 GMT -6
talysman, Zenopus, Piper and whoever else is following along: I ask this because I think my group has interpreted this as MUCH MORE POWERFUL of a spell than you guys are describing. I was "raised up," in the ways of austinjimm's Planet Eris campaign and I've seen it used to dispel magic out of a trick-room in a dungeon: permanently! (Anybody else in the Planet Eris campaign around here who can confirm a similar experience?) I like y'all's description of the spell, but I am afraid that if I implement it my players would complain that I had "nerfed" the spell. Putting a time-limit on it (1 turn) would upset them. So I have got to think about ways I can hew closer to the book and the tradition than we've been doing. Fight on!
|
|
|
Post by delta on Jul 18, 2018 7:56:34 GMT -6
My interpretation of that is "screw-up". Note that each of the at-will abilities from Chainmail -- Dispel Magic, Fire Ball, and Lightning Bolt -- are all likewise given a "1 turn" duration (the latter by reference to Fire Ball). In Swords & Spells, the attack spells turn into "-" duration, while Dispel Magic stays 1 turn; then it's changed in AD&D to "Permanent" (which suggests to me that the author was having trouble coming to grips with it). Also: phrasing like "Instantaneous" did not exist until AD&D. I think there's a small crack for interpreting it as blocking spell-casting in the designated area for the next turn, maybe reminiscent of Chainmail's counter-spell analog, and maybe suggested in the AD&D PHB language using present-participle "... or counter the casting of spells in the area of of effect" (but contra-indicated by that "Permanent" duration there). This far-left-field possibility is what motivated me to ask if anyone at the original table saw it get used this way.
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Jul 18, 2018 9:48:33 GMT -6
talysman, Zenopus, Piper and whoever else is following along: I ask this because I think my group has interpreted this as MUCH MORE POWERFUL of a spell than you guys are describing. I was "raised up," in the ways of austinjimm's Planet Eris campaign and I've seen it used to dispel magic out of a trick-room in a dungeon: permanently! (Anybody else in the Planet Eris campaign around here who can confirm a similar experience?) I like y'all's description of the spell, but I am afraid that if I implement it my players would complain that I had "nerfed" the spell. Putting a time-limit on it (1 turn) would upset them. So I have got to think about ways I can hew closer to the book and the tradition than we've been doing. Fight on! To be clear, what I'm describing (and I'm pretty sure it's what Zenopus is describing) is that any spells that have been dispelled are dispelled forever. The 1-turn duration is for a temporary magic nullification field. Spells cast during that turn might fail, wasting a prepared spell. Unlike Zenopus, I think this applies to things like Magic Missile as well. The difference between Dispel Magic and Anti-Magic Shell is that the latter automatically nullifies magic, while the former only has a chance to nullify based on the level of dispeller vs. level of caster. As for dispelling permanent magical trick rooms, I think that's up to the GM's discretion, as suggested in the spell description. If you imagine the trick being created by one or more spells, then it can be dispelled. If the trick was created by something similar to the item enchantment process, it can't. If it's something else, like a permanent magical side effect or enchanted beast, it's up in the air. I believe I've seen some later interpretations of the spell being able to temporarily nullify enchantments that aren't actual spells, for example forcing a lycanthrope to revert to human form for 1 turn. You could apply that interpretation to trick rooms as well.
|
|
|
Post by Zenopus on Jul 18, 2018 17:02:57 GMT -6
Yup, talysman is right, I was referring to a permanent cancellation of any "enchantments" in the area of effect that are existing at the time the spell was cast or are cast during the duration. I would extend it to all spells if the group I was playing with was fine with that. NPC casters should routinely carry it as a magical defense!
|
|
|
Post by tetramorph on Jul 18, 2018 18:07:38 GMT -6
Wow, I had never experienced it as a kind of battle worthy combat spell. A whole turn would last for most battles.
So this would be an absolutely essential spell when going up against powerful MUs.
Could you cast it directly on an enemy magic user, so that your own spells could still be cast?
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Jul 18, 2018 18:32:06 GMT -6
Wow, I had never experienced it as a kind of battle worthy combat spell. A whole turn would last for most battles. So this would be an absolutely essential spell when going up against powerful MUs. Could you cast it directly on an enemy magic user, so that your own spells could still be cast? You'd have to specifically be outside the area of effect of the Dispel Magic spell. Men & Magic doesn't give an Area of Effect, but later sources ( Zenopus quotes Swords & Spells, I checked the AD&D PHB) give the area as 3 scale inches diameter, which is entirely doable with the spell's given range. But that means you pretty much can't be surprised, or engage the enemy in a typical dungeon room. You need to be able to attack from a moderate distance.
|
|