Help with a few details please.

[Random]

Okay, I'll assume this is the appropriate forum since my first question deals with racial abilities.

I started writing up a "PHB" for my flavor of D&D (based off the 3 little books), so that my players will have an easy reference for how to make characters, and what's expected of them in combat, and what their spells will do.

Currently, I'm trying to write up racial abilities.

Elves can swap off between fighting-man and magic-user (for xp purposes), but not mid-adventure, and may cast spells while wearing no armor or magical armor. They may see in darkness as if it were dim light (Chainmail said light, I made it dim light.). Then there's the languages.
[edit] Oh yeah, immune to paralyzing touch from ghouls.

I'm assuming the Chainmail elf invisibilty is supposed to be magic, am I right?

What about the elven bonuses vs. fantastic creatures from Chainmail, should I worry about that?

Dwarves get the 4 level saving throw bonus, plus can see in darkness just as elves do. Then there's the languages.

Hobbits get the 4 level saving throw bonus as well, and can sling stones as far as a normal arrow could be fired. They may become effectively invisible when hiding in brush or woods.

These of course have the normal level restrictions, and I haven't decided if I'm going to give elves and dwarves any mechancial benefit when it comes to secret doors or sloping passages.

Am I missing any details, something hidden in Chainmail I should consider?

[dwayanu]

The first entries on the "Corrections" page at the end of Greyhawk concern Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits.

[Random]

Thanks, I didn't bother looking in Greyhawk.

I've added the following:

Elves employing magical swords or enchanted arrows gain an additional +1 bonus to their attack rolls.

Ogres, Trolls, and Giants receive a -1 penalty to their attack rolls when attacking Dwarves.

Hobbits gain a +3 bonus to their attack rolls when using a sling.

How's that sound?

[coffee]

Jul 26, 2008 14:28:30 GMT -6 Random said:

I've added the following:
>snip<

Hobbits gain a +3 bonus to their attack rolls when using a sling.

How's that sound?

If you're using the alternate combat system, it sounds good.

If you're using Chainmail, this becomes way too powerful; in some cases, it's an automatic hit. On 2d6, each plus is more powerful than on a d20.

Just sayin', is all.


So, when do we get to see the final version?

[Random]

Yeah, I'm using the alternate system, but I was looking in Chainmail since a few racial abilities aren't spelled out in the booklets.

I dunno how long it'll take me to write it out. Probably not long.

[Zulgyan]

The OD&D Elf

• Elves are also called "Fairies" (Chainmail p. 29).
  
• There are 2 sorts of Elves: Woodland Elves, and Meadowland Elves (M&T p. 16)
  
• Elves may use magic armor and still act as magic-users (M&M p. 8).
  
• Elves are able to speak the languages of Orcs, Hobgoblins, and Gnolls in addition to their own (Elvish) and the other usual tongues (M&M p. 8).
  
• Elves have the ability of moving silently and are nearly invisible in their gray-green cloaks(M&T p. 16). When invisible Elves (and Fairies) cannot attack — or be attacked unless located by an enemy with the special ability to detect hidden or invisible troops — but they can become visible and attack during the same turn (Chainmail p. 28).
  
• Elves armed with magical weapons will add one pip to dice rolled to determine damage. (M&T p. 16)
  
• Elves on foot may split-move and fire (M&T p. 16).
  
• Mounted Elves may not split-move and fire, for they are not naturally adapted to horseback (M&T p. 16).
  
• Elves detect secret doors 1-4 in 6 (U&W p. 9).
  
• Elves notice secret door 1-2 in 6, when passing by them (U&W p. 9).
  
• Elves receive +1 in 6 chance to detect sound at doors (U&W p. 9)
  
• Elves are about 3/4 the size of men (Chainmail p. 28).
  
• Elves see in normal the darkness as if it were light (Chainmail p. 43).
  
• Elves wielding a magical weapon add +2 to attack against goblins.
  
• Elves wielding a magical weapon add +1 to attack against orcs.
  
• Elves deal double damage against Ogres (Chainmail p. 28, ogre entry).
  
• Elves move at 15" / 12" / 6" (deduced from Chainmail p.43)
  
• Elves get no benefits from charging (deduced from Chainmail p.43 - no charge speed)
  
• Elves are neutral but have a slight pre-disposition for LAW (Chainmail p. 34).
  
• Elves wear beards (M&M p. 32).
  

The OD&D Dwarves (and Gnomes)

• they have a high level of magic resistance, and they thus add four levels when rolling saving throws (M&M p. 7)
  
• they are the only characters able to fully employ the +3 Magic War Hammer (M&M p. 7)
  
• they note slanting passages, traps, shifting walls and new construction in underground settings (M&M p. 7)
  
• dwarves receive +1 in 6 chance to detect sound at doors (U&W p. 9)
  
• they are able to speak the languages of Gnomes, Kobolds and
  Goblins in addition to the usual tongues (M&M p. 7)
  
• Because of their relatively small size, clumsy monsters like Ogres, Giants and the like will have a difficult time hitting Dwarves, so score only onehalf the usual hit points when a hit is scored (M&T p. 16). They same applies for Trolls (Chainmail p. 29)
  
• Dwarves are about 62,5% the size of men (Chainmail p. 28)
  
• Dwarves may operate in normal darkness as if it were light (Chainmail p. 29)
  
• Disadvantage: When ordered by a "commander" or "leader" to attack goblins or kobolds, these will be attacked to the exclusion of orders to the contrary.
  
• Dwarves move at: 9" / 6" / 3" (deduced from Chainmail p. 43)
  
• Dwarves are aligned with LAW (Chainmail p. 39).
  

The OD&D Hobbit

• They are about half the size of men (Chainmail p. 28)
  
• They are able to blend into the background (only in brush and woods), and thus make excellent scouts (Chainmail p. 29 and p. 43).
  
• They can fire a stone as far as an archer shoots (Chainmail p. 29).
  
• Their attack rate with the sling is 3/2 (Chainmail p. 29).
  
• They will have magic-resistance equal to dwarves (add four levels for saving throws) (M&M p. 8)
  
• They receive +1 in 6 chance to detect sound at doors (U&W p. 9)
  
• Their movement rate it 12" / 9" / 6" (Chainmail p. 43)
  
• Hobbits gain no benefits from charging (deduced from Chainmail p.43 - no charge speed)
  
• Hobbits are aligned with LAW (Chainmail p. 39)
  

[Random]

Thanks, Zulgyan, although I'll probably trim that to something I can easily remember.

[korgoth]

Nice roundup, Zulgyan.

[dwayanu]

It's not by the book -- and did not even get added in AD&D -- but I personally think that Hobbits should get the same defensive bonus versus big critters that Dwarves do.

One counter-argument I've seen is that "Dwarves aren't fat."

FWIW, the Swords & Spells movement table gives all those types charge bonuses. Curiously, it has a separate entry for Faeries (not otherwise distinguished in D&D, to my recollection).

[Random]

I'm thinking about swapping Zulgyan's stated movement rates for elves and hobbits.

Why?

I like the idea of hobbits being fast little buggers who can dash off into the woods and vanish, making you wonder if you ever saw them to begin with. It also gives them a little extra bonus for their crappy max level.

Elves I'll just assume move the same rate as men. Not too unrealistic.

I was thinking that too, on the dwarf/hobbit thing, but I'll add that to my own notes.

Most dwarves don't go around thinking, "Yep, we dwarves are small and hard to hit for those giants," so I wouldn't include that detail in a player's manual.

Stuff like elven ghoul touch immunity is something elves would probably be aware of, so that would be stated, as well as stuff like dwarven and hobbit magic resistance.

[coffee]

Jul 28, 2008 13:52:38 GMT -6 dwayanu said:

It's not by the book -- and did not even get added in AD&D -- but I personally think that Hobbits should get the same defensive bonus versus big critters that Dwarves do.

Seems to me that, when asked about this very point, Gary said that he didn't include Hobbits in that because nobody in his game was playing one. He just didn't think of it. But that they should indeed have such a bonus.

[Random]

Here's an issue I just hit.

I'm going to be using the whole roll hp at the beginning of combat method, where the dice just lay on the table and are taken away as the character takes damage. It sounds fun.

Bonus hp are easy enough to jot down on paper, but hit point penalties really gum up the works.

Would a penalty to saving throws be reasonable instead of -1 hit point per die for low constitution scores? Something else?

How would you guys handle this?

[ffilz]

The -1 per die can easily be handled by rolling your dice, and turning them all one number less (except for 1s).

+1 per die could be handled the same way, except you may have to dig out an extra die.

If you go with straight 6 sided dice, you could handle +1 per die as roll d8s -1 per die as roll d4s.

Frank

[Random]

Thanks, but I really would love to stick with d6s for damage and hit dice and not have to turn any dice after they are rolled except when damage is taken (going for speed in that regard).

Also, that doesn't work for a 1st level FM with 15 con.
He'd have +2 hp instead of +1.

[Zulgyan]

The "roll on the spot" method was initially intended for monsters only.

If used for PCs, I think that the most practical way for high CON bonuses is to simply set a dice, with no rolling, at the total bonus number.

If a fighter is 3rd level, take a d6 and, without rolling, place it on the table besides the rest of the dice with the 3 number facing up.

[Random]

Yeah, but I liked the idea of it for PCs as well.

The problem is what to do about con penalties, not bonuses.

Good idea on the die, though, that's better than writing it on paper.

I'll probably just do that and get rid hit point penalties altogether (I'll substitute another penalty for it).

[Zulgyan]

Instead of subtracting 1 pip from all dice, subtract total penalty from one dice. Just like when a PC is hit.

[Random]

I think the easiest way to make this work would be exchange the hp penalty for another.

These are all great suggestions, but I'm not finding a way to make them fit with my ideas for damage/wounds/healing and such.

[Random]

Okay, so I haven't thought much about OD&D lately, but just today (after finally printing the pdfs out nicely) it suddenly occured to me how to deal with the con hp penalties when rolling PC hit dice on the spot.

Normally:
6 -> 5
5 -> 4
4 -> 3
3 -> 2
2 -> 1
1 -> 1

So, that's 1-5, plus an additional 1.

I figure instead of trying to turn every die (except those showing 1), I can just treat sixes as ones, so:
6 -> 1
5 -> 5
4 -> 4
3 -> 3
2 -> 2
1 -> 1

This gives 1-5, with an additional 1 (as above). I could either pretend the sixes are really ones, or I could just turn those dice. Turning 1 in 6 dice is a lot better than 5 in 6.

Anyways, I just thought I'd share this recent "duh" moment.

[darneson]

I find that you are more content with;
1) Re-rolling the highest and lowest number.
2) Roll the two dice (not three) but add +6
3) If your total is less than 50-60 just start over.

After all you are a special being not some weak kneed court fop.

Dave Arneson
"Dark Lord of Gaming"

[Random]

Yeah, I haven't decided whether to go the special being or the weak fop route on ability scores. In the former case I'll consider your method.

Thanks for stopping by my thread, Dave.