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Post by tetramorph on Sept 29, 2017 14:40:55 GMT -6
Okay, so it makes clear in M&M that fighters are rather limited in magic items.
They can use swords and armor and all magical weaponry. Magic-users cannot. Okay so far.
But in games I have played in, except for wizard staffs and clerical staffs, we have had fighting-men that can use pretty much any other kind of magic, as long as they know the command word.
How do you play it? Can only a magic-user use boots of speed or leaping? Can only magic users wear an elven cloak? Can only magic users use a ring of invisibility?
Help me out here.
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Post by sixdemonbag on Sept 29, 2017 17:39:41 GMT -6
Just for reference, here are some snippets from M&T that I could find:
M&T (p. 26-26):
Medallion of ESP, 3” Range*
Medallion of ESP, 9” Range*
Amulet vs. Crystal Balls and ESP*
Scarab of Protection from Evil High Priests*
Bag of Holding*
Brazier Commanding Fire Elementals Bowl Commanding Water Elementals Efreet Bottle*
Displacer Cloak*
Elven Cloak and Boots*
Boots of Speed*
Boots of Levitation*
Boots of Traveling and Leaping* Broom of Flying
Helm of Reading Magic and Languages* Helm of Telepathy*
Helm of Chaos (Law)*
Flying Carpet*
Drums of Panic, 24” Range*
Horn of Blasting, 10” Range*
Gauntlets of Ogre Power*
Girdle of Giant Strength*
*Usable by all classes
M&T (p. 25): "All wands usable by Magic-Users only" [Staves are M-U/Cleric]
M&T (p. 32): "All “Protection” spells can be used by any character who is able to read" [Scrolls]
M&T (p. 33): "Rings are usable by any type of character."
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Post by waysoftheearth on Sept 29, 2017 21:04:46 GMT -6
Consider also the frequency with which the different types of magic items occur (M&T p23). Fighters can pretty much use all of: 20% swords 15% armor 5% misc. weapons 25% potions 5% rings Fighters can use most, but not all, of: 5% misc. magic Fighters generally can't use: 20% scrolls (until they have a magic sword with the power to Read Magic?) 5% wands/staves Seems that fighters have the use of (at least) 70% of magic items by frequency, and that this is a significant advantage of the class  |
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Post by Scott Anderson on Sept 30, 2017 11:52:45 GMT -6
Welcome back, Ways!
That's an interesting proposition: can a magic sword with speech and Read Magic cast a spell from a scroll?
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Post by sixdemonbag on Sept 30, 2017 13:07:02 GMT -6
Welcome back, Ways! That's an interesting proposition: can a magic sword with speech and Read Magic cast a spell from a scroll? The rule of cool (my favorite rule!) says yes. A sword with those abilities would be able to cast MU spells from a scroll. And? What a fun item to have in play, too! I like it. An intelligent sword can't acquire scrolls on its own. A fighter can't read non-protection scrolls without an intelligent sword capable of reading magic. However, with their powers combined...!!!  |
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Post by Scott Anderson on Sept 30, 2017 13:23:42 GMT -6
That's my thought exactly. RAW i think you should have a spellcastic class to use a scroll and it would have to be the right kindness of scroll - wiz or Cleric.
But it would be cool for a fighter to carry such a sword, and then he has a squire who holds extra shields and all these scrolls. He would hold out the scrolls so the sword could cast them. And he shields would be there to provide extra splinterings.
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Post by tetramorph on Sept 30, 2017 18:53:55 GMT -6
Thanks, all. waysoftheearth, yes, that is my point. Seems like FM can use just about everything. But M&M makes it sound as though they are rather limited. Why? Oh, and BTW, that is totally how I run speaking swords that can read magic. But, in the main, I think the point is for identifying and discovering the command word for other magical items. Fight on! |
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Post by Starbeard on Oct 22, 2017 4:54:26 GMT -6
I think the wording suggests us to have spellcasting items and miscellaneous items usable only by magic-users in mind, but as the numbers show these are actually not the most frequently encountered types of random magic.
Perhaps this is a case of the author playing his hand, so to speak? Maybe Gary largely didn't stock magic items from the tables, and placed those non-fighter items much more liberally than the tables would suggest. If 75% of all magic items encountered are scrolls, wands and restricted miscellaneous items, then that does put MUs at an advantage and FMs at the bottom.
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Post by tetramorph on Oct 22, 2017 6:24:18 GMT -6
I think the wording suggests us to have spellcasting items and miscellaneous items usable only by magic-users in mind, but as the numbers show these are actually not the most frequently encountered types of random magic. Perhaps this is a case of the author playing his hand, so to speak? Maybe Gary largely didn't stock magic items from the tables, and placed those non-fighter items much more liberally than the tables would suggest. If 75% of all magic items encountered are scrolls, wands and restricted miscellaneous items, then that does put MUs at an advantage and FMs at the bottom. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks! |
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Post by Starbeard on Oct 22, 2017 7:03:35 GMT -6
I like using the random stocking method. Without changing the tables at all, we can alter the probabilities of different items by adding a simple 1-20 roll:1 indicating a wand, 2-10 a scroll, and 11-20 a random item from the table as usual. That would cause scrolls to become 55% of all treasure, bump wands from 5% to 12.5%, and reduce fighter-usable items from 75% to 37.5%.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2017 16:04:38 GMT -6
One way to play it is to have more powerful magic items requires a magic user to sacrifice a spell slot to power them up [the spell slot isn't lost permanently, it just can't be used for casting spells while the item is powered]. While this isn't exactly a magic-user only magic item, it is an item that requires a magic user to use, sort of like having a magic user cast a buff spell on another character.
The items can either be seemingly normal but gain abilities when powered up, such as a pair of boots that become boots of speed when powered up.
Or, they could be items that are magical but get more powerful. For example, a +1 sword that becomes +2 when a spell slot is sacrificed. Similarly, you could allow special powers to manifest based on the spell slot sacrificed such as the aformentioned sword becoming a +2 flaming sword when a magic user sacrifices a fireball spell.
This will also provides a logical, organic limit to the number of magic items a party can carry around. Plus it gives higher level magic users something to do with their lower level spell slots that are often ignored.
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Post by tetramorph on Nov 8, 2017 13:55:57 GMT -6
One way to play it is to have more powerful magic items requires a magic user to sacrifice a spell slot to power them up [the spell slot isn't lost permanently, it just can't be used for casting spells while the item is powered]. While this isn't exactly a magic-user only magic item, it is an item that requires a magic user to use, sort of like having a magic user cast a buff spell on another character. The items can either be seemingly normal but gain abilities when powered up, such as a pair of boots that become boots of speed when powered up. Or, they could be items that are magical but get more powerful. For example, a +1 sword that becomes +2 when a spell slot is sacrificed. Similarly, you could allow special powers to manifest based on the spell slot sacrificed such as the aformentioned sword becoming a +2 flaming sword when a magic user sacrifices a fireball spell. This will also provides a logical, organic limit to the number of magic items a party can carry around. Plus it gives higher level magic users something to do with their lower level spell slots that are often ignored. Hedgehobbit, I really like this. I am already playing more strictly (than I had been "raised") with regards to "read magic." I do not allow virtually any magic items that do not require knowledge of their word of power to activate and control -- including magic swords. I may use the idea that either a.) MUs have to use a slot to use their items or, b.) general use magic items are more powerful for MUs, or both: MUs make general use magic items more powerful when the use a slot. Very cool. Fight on! |
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Post by Starbeard on Nov 9, 2017 9:28:49 GMT -6
Yes, that's really creative. Like Tetramorph it also made me think of words of power to activate items. It could be expressed as a simple read magic spell. Once cast, the special word can be evoked and the item's power will be usable until its wielder next sleeps.
It can be scaled as well: a particularly powerful item may require a higher level slot to power it, or may have its powers increased by using up extra slots. A particularly powerful but "sleepy" magic sword +2 could have each of its +1s charged with a first level slot, and each of its three special abilities are attached to a 1st level, 2nd level and 3rd level spell slot, respectively. Only a magic-user capable of wasting 5 spell slots across variously levels could hope to unlock all of its potential.
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