Streamlining Treasure Generation

[derv]

I've been tooling around with treasure generation and thought I'd throw some of it out there as chum in the ocean. This is all rough and eye balled, so not necessarily statistically equivalent to M&T's tables. It's meant to combine the tables and methods found in M&T and U&WA.

Condensed Random Treasure Generation

Procedure for random determination by room:

1. roll for monster 1-2 in 6. If present, roll on Monster Matrix (U&WA p.10 or encounter tables below)

2. roll for % in lair by type (M&T p.3) or predetermine if in lair
---a. If in lair, roll # appearing and use treasure type determination below.
---b. If not in lair, 1-3 in 6 for treasure being present (use type J below)
---c. If room empty, 1 in 6 for treasure being present (use type J below)
----*(optional) on a roll of 6, room is trapped instead

3. Chance by type that no treasure is present in lair (roll d6):

A: Land 1-2, Desert 1-2, Water 1
B: 1-2
C: 1-4
D: 1-2
E: 1-3
F: 1-3
G: 1
H: 1
I: 1-3
J: as above steps 2b & c

*if no treasure is present, go no further.

4. Make up of treasure by type (roll d10):

A:
Land:
1=cp; 2=sp; 3=gp; 4=g/j; 5=m; 6=cp & sp; 7=sp, gp, g/j; 8=gp, g/j, m; 9=gp & m; 10=g/j & m
gp x2, g/j x6, magic x3
Desert:
1=cp; 2=sp; 3=gp; 4=g/j; 5-6=m; 7=sp & gp; 8=sp, gp, g/j; 9=gp, g/j, m; 10=sp, gp, g/j, m
g/j= x7, magic x3
Water:
1-2=gp; 3-4=g/j; 5-6=gp & g/j; 7-8= map; 9-10=gp, g/j, & map
gp x5, g/j x10

B:
1-2=cp; 3=sp; 4=gp; 5=g/j; 6=cp & sp; 7=cp, sp, gp; 8=sp, gp, g/j; 9=cp & m; 10=cp & g/j
gp x1/2, magic x1

C:
1=cp; 2-3=sp; 4-5=g/j; 6=m; 7-8=sp & g/j; 9=cp, sp, g/j, m; 10=cp, sp, g/j
cp x2, magic x2

D:
1=cp; 2=sp; 3-5=gp; 6=g/j; 7-8=gp & g/j; 9=gp & m; 10=sp, gp, g/j, m
sp x2, magic x2 + potion

E:
1=cp; 2=sp; 3=gp; 4=g/j; 5=m; 6=cp & sp; 7=sp & gp; 8=gp & g/j; 9=gp & m; 10=sp, gp, m
cp x2, sp x2, g/j x2, magic x3 + scroll

F:
1=sp; 2-4= gp; 5=sp & gp; 6=gp, g/j, m; 7=m; 8=gp & m; 9=gp & g/j; 10=g/j
sp x3, gp x2, g/j x4, magic x3 + 1 potion and 1 scroll

G:
1-4=gp; 5=g/j; 6=m; 7=gp & g/j; 8-9=gp & m; 10=g/j & m
gp x6, g/j x3, magic x4 + scroll

H:
1=cp; 2=sp; 3-4=gp; 5=g/j; 6-7=gp & g/j; 8=sp, gp, g/j; 9=gp & m; 10=cp, sp, m
cp x4, sp x20, gp x10, g/j x10, magic x4 + 1 potion and 1 scroll

I:
1-2=g/j & m; 3-8=g/j; 9-10=m
g/j x3, magic x1

J:
1-4=sp; 5-7=sp & gp; 8=sp & g/j; 9=sp, gp, g/j; 10=sp & m
*On levels 8+ roll additional d6 for magic items (1 in 6 present)

levels 1-3: sp x1/10, gp x1/100
levels 4-7: gp x1/2
levels 8-12: sp x5, g/j x2, magic xd3
levels 13+: sp x10, gp x5, g/j x2, magic xd6

5. Roll for quantity and quality

coins= d6 x 1000 x number listed or 1
gems/jewelry= d6 x number listed or 1
*quality (value) see below
magic items= number listed or 1
*misc. treasure option see below

Gems & Jewelry
a. roll d6 for each one or grouping up to ten (1-4)= gems (5-6)= jewelry
b. roll d6 for gems (1-2)= rubies (3-4)= emeralds (5)= pearls (6)= diamonds
c. roll d6 for jewelry (1-2)= rings (3)= bracelet (4)= earrings (5)= broach (6)= necklace

Gem value (gp): roll d6 (1-2)= 50, (3-4)= 100, (5)= 500, (6)= 1000 >>> 5000
*roll d6 with a 1 putting gem at the next higher value

Jewelry value (gp): roll d6 (1-3)= d6 x 100, (4-5)= d6 x 500, (6)= 2d6 x 1000

Loose treasure stored in: roll d6 (1-2)= sack (3-4)= chest (5)= leather pack (6)= pottery

6. Roll for treasures aspect

Lairs: d6 (1-2) hidden, (3) trapped, (4) hidden & trapped, (5-6) not hidden or trapped

Non-lair: d6 (1-3) hidden, (4) trapped, (5) hidden & trapped, (6) not hidden or trapped

Unguarded: (1-4) hidden, (5-6) hidden & trapped

Misc. Treasure (optional)
If magic is present in the treasure, the GM may elect to roll for misc. treasure in lieu of selecting a magic item, with a 16% chance of item being an artifact.

Roll d6 for type:
(1) d6 pieces of artwork, sculpture, vases, or tapestry worth 2d6 gp x d6 (1-2= x10, 3-5= x100, 6= x500)
(2) d20 pieces of plates, goblets, utensils (d6: 1-4= silver 5-6= gold)
(3) d20 pieces of weaponry or armor (roll for type x listed value. 1 in 6 chance= ornate x5 listed value)
(4) 2d6 pieces of ivory (d6 x 100 gp per tusk)
(5) d6 kegs of goods (roll for contents)
(6) artifact (*refer to M&T p38)

Content of Keg:
a. d6 for size (1-4)= 5 gal. (5)= 20 gal. (6)= 50 gal.
b. d6 for type (1)= wine 5 gp (2)= ale 1 gp (3)= salt 10 gp (4)= spices 10-100 gp (5)= perfume 10-60 gp (6)= oil 4 gp
*values are per gallon

Liquid weight= 8 lbs/gallon= 80 coins/gallon
Dry weight= 5 lbs/gallon= 50 coins/gallon

[Deleted]

This is looking interesting, even though I do it on the fly, I am constantly looking at what other people do for ideas and for ways to vary things. All about keeping it fresh.

[Deleted]

I wing it. Always have.

"Level 5 Room 14; 3 Gorgons. 4 pieces of jewelry."

Boom, done. Took as much time as it took to type.

[geoffrey]

Jun 24, 2017 15:19:21 GMT -6 @gronanofsimmerya said:

Took as much time as it took to type.

Mark Twain: "I like Joan of Arc best of all my books; and it is the best; I know it perfectly well. And besides, it furnished me seven times the pleasure afforded me by any of the others; twelve years of preparation, and two years of writing. The others needed no preparation and got none."

[derv]

"It usually takes me more than three weeks to prepare a good impromptu speech."

-Mark Twain

[Deleted]

Jun 24, 2017 15:19:21 GMT -6 @gronanofsimmerya said:

I wing it. Always have.

"Level 5 Room 14; 3 Gorgons. 4 pieces of jewelry."

Boom, done. Took as much time as it took to type.

I can not imagine (for me) doing it any other way. YMMV

[Deleted]

Jun 24, 2017 21:09:05 GMT -6 derv said:

"It usually takes me more than three weeks to prepare a good impromptu speech."

-Mark Twain

Humbert Humphrey was once asked how long it would take him to prepare for a speech. For a five minute speech he wanted at least 3 months to prepare ranging up to "you can talk for two hours", he said, "I'm ready right now."

[derv]

Updated OP. Added info on determining quantities.

In a nutshell, determine if monster(s) is present and if in lair, roll d6 if any treasure is present, roll d10 for type, roll d6 for quantity.

[derv]

Another update. Added gem and jewelry values and an Arneson influenced miscellaneous treasure option.

[derv]

I've compiled the monsters from U&WA into dungeon levels. Here is the Level One d20 Encounter Table.

Roll --Type--------------------  Number Appearing ------In Lair------ Treasure Type---------- Monster Level

1-6.-- Men-----------------------   30-300 ----------------15%------------  A ---------------------variable
*bandits, beserkers, dervishes, nomads, buccaneers, pirates, cavemen, mermen, heroes, wizards, priests
*see U&WA p.18
7. --Goblins/Kobolds -------------40-400 -----------------50% --------1-6 gp each----------------  L1
8.-- Orcs --------------------------30-300----------------  50% -------------D -----------------------L1
9. --Hobgoblins/Gnolls -----------20-200----------------  30% -------------D -----------------------L2
10.-- Ogres -----------------------3-18 --------------------30% -------1000 gp + C----------------  L4
11.-- Skeletons/Zombies---------3-30 --------------------nil--------------nil------------------------- L1
12. --Ghouls ----------------------1-8 ---------------------20%------------  B ------------------------L2
13. --Wights---------------------- 2-24 --------------------60% ------------B -------------------------L3
14. --Wraiths--------------------- 2-16-------------------  20%------------  E ------------------------L4
15.-- Gargoyle-------------------- 2-20-------------------  25%-----------  C-----------------------   L4
16. --Lycanthropes--------------  2-20-------------------  15% ------------C-----------------------   L4
17-18. -Sm. Insects/Animals ---------------------------  variable –--------------------------------   L1-2
*1-6 hp AC8
*see U&WA p.19
19. -Lg. Insects/Animals --------------------------------  variable ---------------------------------   L3-4
*2-20 hd AC8-2 dam 2-4 dice
*see U&WA p.19
20. --Jellies & Slimes--------------  1 ----------------------nil---------------nil---------------------   L2-3

*Unless in lair, number appearing is N= base number x (dungeon level / monster level) x party/3
Base number= d6 for “normal” or group types and 1 for “fantastic” types



Here's an example of how the two tables are used together:

1st roll (d20) 15= gargoyle> L4 monster

2nd roll (d100) 36= not in lair>>only 1 appears

3rd roll (d6) 1= Type J treasure is present in room

4th roll (d10) 9= sp, gp, g/j

quantities:

sp (d6)= 5 x 1000 x 1/10= 500 sp

gp (d6)= 3 x 1000 x 1/100= 30 gp

gems & jewelry (d6)= 4 pieces (d6) 3= gem, 6= jewelry, 4= jewelry, 3= gem

quality:

gems (d6) 5= pearl 6= 1000 gp, 1= ruby 2= 50 gp

jewelry (d6) 3= bracelet 2= 3 x100= 300 gp, 5= broach 3= 3 x 100= 300 gp


treasure stored in (d6) 6= pottery


Total treasure value= 1730 gp

[derv]

Updated OP with Treasures Aspect and revamped encounter matrix above. Here's my mods-

Encounters by Dungeon Level

Roll d6 with a 1 in 6 chance encounter is at next lower category
Levels 1: roll d10 or d20 on Table A
Levels 2-3: roll d20 or d10 on Table A
Levels 4-7: roll d12 or d20 on Tables A&B
Levels 8-12: roll d20 on Table B
Levels 13+: roll d10 on Table B

Unless in lair, number appearing is N= base number x (dungeon level / monster level) x party/3
Base number= d6 for “normal” or group types and 1 for “fantastic” types

Table A:
Roll--------Type--------No. Appearing--------In Lair--------Treasure Type--------Monster Level

(1-2)1-6.------Men-----------30-300-------------15%---------------A-----------------variable
*bandits, beserkers, dervishes, nomads, buccaneers, pirates, cavemen, mermen, heroes, wizards, priests
*see U&WA p.18

(3)7.-----Goblins/Kobolds----40-400-------------50%-------------1-6 gp each-------------L1

(4)8.---------Orcs-----------30-300-------------50%---------------D---------------------L1

(5)9.----Skeletons/Zombies----3-30---------------nil–------------nil--------------------L1

(6)10.(1)--Hobgoblins/Gnolls---20-200-------------30%---------------D---------------------L2

(7)11.(2)-------Ghouls-----------1-8--------------20%---------------B---------------------L2

(8)12-13.(3)-Sm. Insects/Animals–----------------variable----------------------------------L1-2
*1-6 hp AC8
*see U&WA p.19

(9)14.(4)--Lg. Insects/Animals------------------variable----------------------------------L3-4+
*2-20 hd AC8-2 dam 2-4 dice
*see U&WA p.19

(10)15.(5)-Jellies & Slimes------1-----------------nil-------------nil--------------------L2-3

(1)16.(6)------Wights----------2-24----------------60%--------------B---------------------L3

(2)17.(7)------Wraiths---------2-16----------------20%--------------E---------------------L4

(3)18.(8)------Ogres-----------3-18----------------30%---------1000 gp + C----------------L4

(4)19.(9)-----Gargoyle---------2-20----------------25%--------------C---------------------L4

(5)20.(10)--Lycanthropes-------2-20----------------15%--------------C---------------------L4


Table B:
Roll--------Type--------No. Appearing--------In Lair--------Treasure Type--------Monster Level

(6)1.---------Trolls----------2-12----------------50%---------------D-------------------L5

(7)2.---------Wyvern----------1-6-----------------60%---------------E-------------------L5

(8)3.--------Spectres---------1-8-----------------25%---------------E-------------------L5

(9)4.--------Mummies----------1-12----------------30%---------------D-------------------L5

(10)5.-------Minotaur---------1-8-----------------10%---------------C-------------------L5

(11)6.------Cockatrice--------1-8-----------------35%---------------D-------------------L5

(12)7.-------Medusa-----------1-4-----------------75%---------------F-------------------L5

(13)8.-------Manticore----------1-4-------------------25%---------------D-------------------L5

(14)9.(1)-Hydra---------5-12 heads-------------25%---------------B-------------------L5-6

(15)10.(2)-Giants-----------1-8-----------------30%------------5000 gp + E------------L6

(16)11.(3)-Dragon-----------1-4-----------------60%---------------H-------------------L6

(17)12.(4)-Basilisk---------1-6-----------------40%---------------F-------------------L6

(18)13.(5)-Gorgons----------1-4-----------------50%---------------E-------------------L6

(19)14.(6)-Vampires---------1-6-----------------20%---------------F-------------------L6

(20)15-17.(7)-Men-------------1-6-----------------15%---------------J-------------------L5-6
*Lords, Wizards, High Priests, Supers

18.(8)-------Chimera----------1-4-----------------50%---------------F-------------------L6

19.(9)-------Balrog-----------1-6-----------------25%---------------F-------------------L6

20.(10)----Purple Worm------1-4-----------------25%---------------D-------------------L6

[Scott Anderson]

how many dice rolls per treasure hoard are you saving here? Is it really streamlined?

[derv]

Jun 30, 2017 19:25:02 GMT -6 Scott Anderson said:

how many dice rolls per treasure hoard are you saving here? Is it really streamlined?

Well, btb for treasure types as found in M&T you would conventionally have to roll 2 dice (percentile) up to six times where the result could easily end up being zip. I've distilled that into a single all or nothing roll of a d6. If treasure is present, you need only roll an additional d10 to determine content. So, does two dice vs. twelve dice sound like an improvement to you?

More importantly, I've rolled the entire enchilada of treasure generation from M&T and U&WA into one package for your convenience. You just have to determine if it's a lair or not. I've left the In Lair percentage numbers as is, but would likely convert them to d20.

I've also incorporated U&WA's Monster Matrix into the process by representing it's methods into a single die roll. In the process I've included options that people can feel free to ignore. Table A has been reorganized to present some variation and I added an option of rolling a 1 in 6 chance for a potentially weaker monster occurring (again, an Arneson influence). A person could also add the option of a stronger challenge occurring on a roll of a 6 if they wanted. This all can just as easily be ignored and a person simply rolls a d20 for all encounters if they like.

Of course, if you're a free wheeler who dislikes randomization, none of this matters much

[Scott Anderson]

It's good. I am not smart enough to parse everything you wrote. My eyes glaze over. Therefore thank you for explaining it to me. I love that it's so much simpler, and I am fond of six-and-twenty rather than all the polyhedrals so I'll work on that as well.

[derv]

In compiling these stocking methods I’ve attempted to hew closely to the original books. One thing that is strikingly obvious about the stocking tables found in M&T and U&WA is their application to solo play. This drew me to look again at Gygax’s article found in SR#1, which would later be duplicated and expanded in the 1e DMG appendix A. This is good stuff for those looking at intended treasure and encounter frequencies of the original game.

There is an opinion that the Treasure Types found in M&T are too rich for dungeon delves. I have not found this to generally be the case. Interestingly, Gygax’s article includes this note for Treasure with Monster, “According to the type indicated in D&D vol.3 for ‘Outdoor Adventure’ with pro rata adjustments for relative numbers”. Basically, use the Monster and Treasure Types found in M&T and adjust for party size- aka reduce for solo play.

My eye was also dawn to “Chamber Contents”. By the way, this section is identical in both the article and the DMG when it comes to probable outcomes. It’s worth comparing to the original books.

Rooms will be empty 60%
Monster only 10%
Monster & treasure 15%
Special or empty 5%
Tricks & traps 5%
Unguarded treasure 5%

Of note is that over half of the rooms will be empty, compared to roughly only 1/3 in the original books, only ¼ are occupied, and less than ¼ have treasure. Unguarded treasure is somewhat meager. There is no opportunity of mixed treasures. They are all of a single type commensurate with dungeon level (though it now incorporates electrum and platinum coins).

Chance of any one is:

25% 1000 cp/level
25% 1000 sp/level
15% 750 ep/level
15% 250 gp/level
10% 100 pp/level
4% 1-4 gems/level
3% 1 piece of jewelry/level
3% magic item

Clearly Gygax was not fixated on balance or the 1/3 rule of dungeon stocking. Let me encourage you to try a little solo play using my tables and procedures with the DMG appendix A. The DMG did change (improved?) the probabilities of Table 1 and corrected the 11-13 omission from SR#1. Here it is as an illustration of the established tradition of randomized dungeon stocking.

Roll: Result:

1-2 continue straight, check again in 60’
3-5 door
6-10 side passage, check again in 30’
11-13 passage turns
14-16 chamber
17 stairs
18 dead end
19 trick/trap
20 wandering monster

Originally, my intent was to streamline treasure generation. I have clearly expanded upon that concept. Different than the solo methods in SR#1, for stocking purposes I will roll 1 or 2 d20 to determine the number of rooms per level. Then, before drawing a map, list those numbers on a blank piece of paper and proceed to randomly generate each rooms content. I can fully stock a level of 20+ rooms in about 10 minutes in this manner. When I’m done, a theme has often revealed itself and I then draw the map and add any dressing necessary. It is a game within a game, much like Travellers character generation.