Is Chainmail really needed to play OD&D?

[peterlind]

In Men & Magic, Vol. I, the Chainmail miniatures rules, latest edition, are listed among "recommended equipment" for play. But is Chainmail really needed to play OD&D? The following paper is my analysis of this question. Your thoughts and comments are most welcome.

www.dropbox.com/s/psn97lnqwfyot62/IS%20CHAINMAIL%20REALLY%20NEEDED%20TO%20PLAY%20OD%26D_1_2.pdf?dl=0

EDIT: some typos corrected

[tetramorph]

Nice paper and nicely argued.

Nevertheless, this represents a whole can of worms!

[foxroe]

Some more info you may find helpful:

The FAQ that appeared in THE STRATEGIC REVIEW Vol. 1, No. 2 (Summer 1975):
======================================================

QUESTIONS MOST FREQUENTLY ASKED ABOUT DUNGEONS & DRAGONS RULES

The space limitations of D&D (and it was difficult to get all we managed to in three booklets!) forced us to gloss over certain areas, hoping that this would not cause undue problems for readers. While the number of letters with questions regarding D & D indicates that our assumption was correct, even one or two percent of the readers represents too large a portion of unsatisfied buyers, so we herewith offer a few more details in those areas where questions most frequently occur.

In addition, there are a few errors which have been corrected by means of additional sheet in the latest printing of D & D. Those of you with sets of the rules which do not contain these corrections can acquire one simply by sending a stamped return envelope to TSR requesting “D & D Corrections”.

Combat: CHAINMAIL is primarily a system for 1:20 combat, although it provides a basic understanding for man-to-man fighting also. The “Man-To-Man” and “Fantasy Supplement” sections of Chainmail provide systems for table-top actions of small size. The regular CHAINMAIL system is for larger actions where man-like types are mainly involved, i.e. kobolds, goblins, dwarves, orcs, elves, men, hobgoblins, etc. It is suggested that the alternate system in D & D be used to resolve the important melees where principal figures are concerned, as well as those involving the stronger monsters.

When fantastic combat is taking place there is normally only one exchange of attacks per round, and unless the rules state otherwise, a six-sided die is used to determine how many hit points damage is sustained when an attack succeeds. Weapon type is not considered, save where magical weapons are concerned. A super hero, for example, would attack eight times only if he were fighting normal men (or creatures basically that strength, i.e., kobolds, goblins, gnomes, dwarves, and so on).

Considerations such as weapon-type, damage by weapon-type, and damage by monster attack tables appear in the first booklet to be added to the D & D series --SUPPLEMENT I, GREYHAWK, which should be available about the time this publication is, or shortly thereafter.

Initiative is always checked. Surprise naturally allows first attack in many cases. Initiative thereafter is simply a matter of rolling two dice (assuming that is the number of combatants) with the higher score gaining first attack that round. Dice scores are adjusted for dexterity and so on.

Combat Example:

10 ORCS surprise a lone Hero wandering lost in the dungeons, but the die check reveals they are 30’ distant at the time of surprise, so they use their initiative to close to melee distance. lnitiative is now checked. The Hero scores a 3, plus 1 for his high dexterity, so it is counted 4. The Orcs score 6, and even a minus 1 for their lack of dexterity (optional) still allows them first attack. As they outnumber their opponent so heavily it is likely that they will try to overpower him rather than kill, so each hit they score will be counted as attempts to grapple the Hero:

- Assumed armor of the Hero: Chainmail & Shield -- AC 4.

- Score required to hit AC 4 -- 15 (by monsters with 1 hit die).

- Only 5 Orcs can attack, as they haven’t had time to surround.

Assume the following dice scores for the Orcs attacks:
Orc #1 - 06; #2 - 10; #3 - 18; #4 - 20; #5 - 03.

Two of the Orcs have grappled the Hero, and if his score with 4 dice is less than their score with 2 dice he has been pinned helplessly. If it is a tie they are struggling, with the Hero still on his feet, but he will be unable to defend himself with his weapon. If the Hero scores higher than the Orcs use the positive difference to throw off his attackers, i.e. the Hero scores 15 and the Orcs scored but 8, so the Hero has tossed both aside, stunning them for 7 turns between them.

- Round 2: lnitiative goes to the Hero.

- Score required to hit Orcs -- 11 (4th level fighter vs. AC 6).

Assume the following dice score by the Hero. Note that he is allowed one attack for each of his combat levels as the ratio of one Orc vs. the Hero is 1:4, so this is treated as normal (non-fantastic) melee, as is any combat where the score of one side is a base 1 hit die or less.

Hero: 19; 01; 16; 09. Two out of four blows struck. There are 8 orcs which can be possibly hit. An 8-sided die is rolled to determine which have been struck. Assume a 3 and an 8 are rolled. Orcs #3 and #8 are diced for to determine their hit points, and they have 3 and 4 points respectively. Orc #3 takes 6 damage points and is killed. Orc #8 takes 1 damage point and is able to fight.

- All 7 surviving/non-stunned Orcs are now able to attack.

Continued attempts to overpower the Hero are assumed, and no less than 4 Orcs are able to attack the Hero from positions where his shield cannot be brought into play, so his AC is there considered 5, and those Orcs which attack from behind add +2 to their hit dice. In the case it is quite likely that the Orcs will capture the Hero.

Saving throws for monsters are the same as for the appropriate type and level of man, i.e. a balrog would gain the saving throw of either a 10th level fighter or a 12th level magic-user (the latter based upon the balrog’s magic resistance), whichever score is the more favorable for the balrog. A troll would be equal to a 7th level fighter as it has 6 dice +3, virtually seven dice.

Morale: This is a factor which is seldom considered. The players, basically representing only their own character and a few others, have their own personal morale in reality. Unintelligent monsters fight until death. Occasionally, however, it is necessary to check either troops serving with a party (in whatever respect) or the morale of intelligent monsters. This is strictly a decision for the referee. The system used is likewise up to the referee, although there is one in CHAINMAIL which can be employed, or he can simply throw two dice -- a 2 being very bad morale, a 12 being very good morale. With situational adjustments this score will serve as a guideline for what action will be taken by the party checked.

[Finarvyn]

The short answer is "yes, because we did it" but a better answer might be "you don't need Chainmail, but it might help you understand some of the concepts and terminology of the game."

I haven't read your analysis paper yet, but I will head over and download. A wise person would have read it before I responded to this thread.

EDIT: Read the paper, and think it's well done. :-)

[peterlind]

> Regarding the FAQ <


Thanks for posting that. Yes, the FAQ certainly has some helpful information on combat. I suggest that the information in the FAQ, though, presented largely new material as far as the original OD&D books were concerned. For initiative, a DEX bonus is confirmed. I suggest it was probably equivalent to the Fire Missile bonus (i.e. +1/-1). The combat example includes a grapple attack against a target's normal AC.

As far as multiple attacks go: In Chainmail, there were three combat tables: Appendix A had the combat tables for regular 1:20 combat between normal figures, Appendix B had the man-to-man combat table with weapon class vs. armor class, for 1:1 combat between normal figures, and Appendix E had the fantasy combat table for 1:1 combat between fantastic figures. But what happened when you had, for example, 2 trolls fighting 20 men-at-arms? In this case, each troll counted as 6 figures. Also, heroes counted as 4 figures and superheroes counted as 8 figures, etc. In these cases, the Chainmail combat tables in Appendix A would be used for resolution.

However, the D&D FAQ seems to give an example based on the Alternate Combat System. It is stated here that the Hero gets 4 attacks against the Orcs. To the best of my understanding, this is new information that is carrying-over the rule from Chainmail over to the ACS.

[Stormcrow]

I haven't read the paper yet, but when my toddler goes to bed I'll do so. In the meanwhile...

Chainmail is listed as a requirement for D&D because when first published D&D was thought of as an extension and expansion of miniature wargaming. A wargame campaign across a continent and a dungeon delve were just different aspects of one big game. The D&D rules are simply saying that when you're dealing with armies you use the traditional wargame rules and when your personal characters (principals) are fighting monsters you use the "alternative" system. You use the rules that match the current scale. D&D has rules for all levels, though most people ignore the Chainmail-level stuff in the back of Underworld & Wilderness Adventures.

What most people would call a D&D campaign today is just the personal characters part of a D&D campaign back then. You don't need Chainmail for that.