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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 25, 2016 6:09:15 GMT -6
In the "Save or Die" podcast Episode #99 (just after 5:00 minutes in), Jon Peterson said he played in a game in Gary Gygax's old house in Lake Geneva, DMed by Paul Stormberg and "based on a recently rediscovered snippet of the first level of Greyhawk that actually was distributed by Gary [Gygax] to teach people how to construct dungeons and play D&D around 1976."
Does anyone know what this 'snippet' is?
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Post by scottenkainen on Sept 25, 2016 7:44:47 GMT -6
I would certainly love to hear more about it too!
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Post by Zenopus on Sept 25, 2016 8:00:06 GMT -6
See this Gary Con 2014 thread on the Acaeum: www.acaeum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?cache=1&p=220019&c=1#p220019There's also more discussion here in a Castle Greyhawk thread: www.knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=196535#p196535Summary: Paul found a "What is D&D" type-handout from the '70s, most likely from Origins II in 1976, that includes a portion of the first level of Castle Greyhawk, including both a map & key. Paul ran several sessions with this dungeon at Gary's old house at Gary Con 2014. I was able to match several player maps from Paul's game with Gary's binder map of Castle Greyhawk Level One that he used for running OD&D convention games in the '00s.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 25, 2016 9:31:40 GMT -6
Are there any scans of this "What is D&D" handout available? PDF versions?
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Post by Zenopus on Sept 25, 2016 11:28:09 GMT -6
Not that I know of. So far there's just the info Paul gave in the Acaeum thread, and the con reports/maps from various players at GaryCon. I'd love to have a transcription to run for a game!
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Post by grodog on Sept 27, 2016 8:27:50 GMT -6
Paul did write some info about the event in his email thread about the game he was planning to run at the 330 South Center Street home:
I'll see if I have any other info about it in my notes.
Allan.
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Post by Zenopus on Sept 28, 2016 21:38:02 GMT -6
I'll summarize what we may know about the dungeon content based on Paul's overview and player game reports. From Paul's overview (see Acaeum link above): * "1 page dungeon map" --- based on player maps, Paul's DM map is similar to at least part of Gary's binder map (see K&KA thread linked above) * "3.25 pages of encounter keys", typed & refers to "color coding" --- the 1-page map doesn't have this color coding, but it was possibly used on a poster map that was hung up during the event at Origins * an NPC "conjurer/monk (5th level)" --- A conjurer is a 3rd level MU in OD&D/AD&D, so possibly a MU/Monk 3/5 (a multi-class combo not seen elsewhere?). Monks first appear as a PC class in Blackmoor (9/75). * a gelatinous cube --- first published in Greyhawk (2/75) * several magic items from Greyhawk * a reference to "Yeenoghu, Demon Lord of Orcs" --- same as his original title in Strategic Preview #5 (Summer of '76). See here for the the full OD&D Yeenoghu. Perhaps indicates presence of orcs on level?
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Post by Zenopus on Sept 29, 2016 22:29:41 GMT -6
Now for the player reports... Nesbit37 on the Acaeum, 3/27/14 (?) game: * PC ended up trapped between two gelatinous cubes in a twisting corridor, one had eaten a kobold B'monkey on the Gary Con forums, 3/28/14 game: * "a chaotic monk hanging out in a random chamber" --- presumably the "conjurer/monk" mentioned above * a few goblins * a giant snake
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Post by Zenopus on Sept 30, 2016 11:51:02 GMT -6
Stratochamp on the Acaeum, 3/29/14 afternoon game: * In the castle ruins "there was an opportunity" to cast Read Magic, granting "a +1 one-time boon to all of the party members" * in the dungeon, some goblins and an ogre Paul himself further described the ogre encounter in the same thread: * The PCs were "surrounded by armored fighting men" when attacked by "a massive ogre" wielding a "tree-bough club" Jon Peterson (increment here) played in this same session. In an email to me, he mentioned some of the encounters: * "goblins, hobgoblins, ogres and a couple of gelatinous cubes" This is Jon's Player Map, from a video he made. Based on the similarity with Gary's "binder map", the PCs entered the dungeon via the staircase in the upper right corner of the photo. 
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Post by GRWelsh on Oct 1, 2016 10:48:54 GMT -6
Thanks for all the notes, guys. Now, if we can only get a hold of a copy of the thing itself!
It will be our noble quest!
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Post by Zenopus on Oct 12, 2016 23:32:34 GMT -6
Finally, we have Guy Fullerton's report posted to the K&KA Alehouse, from yet another session. This is by the far the most detailed set of notes to emerge from these games. * Constrictor Snake, with a teardrop necklace in gut --- this was their first encounter, so must be near entrance * Gelatinous Cube, containing 30 gp, 10 cp, and a potion, possibly frost giant strength (described as a small flask with a cold, minty taste) --- presumably another corridor encounter * Complex of three adjoining rooms: One with "humans giving orders to a goblin", another with four warrior reinforcements (16 GP, pinkie ring w/skull), and the third with an ogre (ermine belt, leather pouch with two small pearls), a "smelly but valuable" bed (no exact value given) and a chest with two sacks of coins (287 SP, 186 GP) * Trophy Room hidden by secret door, containing an ogre and a chest with runes, decipherable with Read Magic, that say "Closed tight, until the bright". The chest will open easily if taken into daylight, and contains silver and a "nice shield (hopefully magic)". * Sacks Room, contains centipedes (with a weak progessive poison) and 570 SP. Behind this room is an empty room. * Stacked Chair Room, here two spiders lurk in the chairs and will attack if the chairs are moved. * Guru Room, contains candles, skulls, a bowl and a man who asks "what do you seek?" and then conjures the item in his hand and says "if you can take it you can keep it". Unsuccessful attempts result in a slap for damage. He can also cast magic missile --- likely the conjurer/monk mentioned above. * Urn Room, contains 3 terracotta urns, one empty, the others filled with urine or sand. The sand urn contains something "purpleish", revealed when the urn was pushed over (a potion that broke?). The urine urn hides silver coins. This is the treasure of the guru, and he will demand it back and cast Magic Missile on the thief. * Goblin Room, Two dozen goblins playing dice, have 120 cp, 92 sp. PLAYER'S MAP On this map, north is pointing down. It partially matches Jon's map if flipped vertically. The staircase is where they entered from the surface.
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Post by Zenopus on Sept 30, 2018 8:28:37 GMT -6
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Post by Zenopus on May 21, 2019 18:52:29 GMT -6
I'll summarize what we may know about the dungeon content based on Paul's overview and player game reports. From Paul's overview (see Acaeum link above): * "1 page dungeon map" --- based on player maps, Paul's DM map is similar to at least part of Gary's binder map (see K&KA thread linked above) * 5-typed pages, which include: * "1.5 page description of what D&D is and how it is played" --- refers to "color coding" --- the 1-page map doesn't have this color coding, but it was possibly used on a poster map that was hung up during the event at Origins * "3.25 pages of encounter keys", which include: * an NPC "conjurer/monk (5th level)" --- A conjurer is a 3rd level MU in OD&D/AD&D, so possibly a MU/Monk 3/5 (a multi-class combo not seen elsewhere?). Monks first appear as a PC class in Blackmoor (9/75). * a gelatinous cube --- first published in Greyhawk (2/75) * several magic items from Greyhawk * a reference to "Yeenoghu, Demon Lord of Orcs" --- same as his original title in Strategic Preview #5 (Summer of '76). See here for the the full OD&D Yeenoghu. Perhaps indicates presence of orcs on level? *bump* Paul just auctioned a newly found copy of the first 2 pages of this 5-page document, from the collection of a former TSR employee. Sold for $204. * These 2 pages appear to correspond to the 1.5-page description of D&D, and the first bit of the encounter keys (the 0.25 portion, I presume). The remaining 3 pages of encounter keys, and the map, were not part of the auction. The entire first page was shown in the auction, and part of the 2nd page. * The first page has four paragraphs, with the fourth continuing on the next page. The first paragraph lists ability scores in the OD&D order, with constitution before dexterity. Three classes are mentioned here (no thieves, but they are mentioned later on the same page), but five races including half-elven --- suggesting this was written post-Greyhawk (as Paul noted earlier). * The second paragraph describes the role of the "Dungeonmaster" (single word). * The third paragraph mentions that "This demonstration is designed for the complete novice, and the players will have been selected accordingly if at all possible". * The second page has a continuation of the fourth paragraph, another long paragraph, a short paragraph about contacting TSR, and the beginning of the key for the dungeon level. Unfortunately, these are only partially shown in the photo. * The long paragraph has some interesting bits: "[le]vel for this demonstration is based upon the first level ...[Gr]eyhawk--the second oldest castle/dungeon campaign exist-... publication of the D&D game system by one year". Update: See the transcription below.
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Post by Zenopus on Mar 14, 2021 21:12:17 GMT -6
Here is the transcription that I promised a while back. I've formatted it here to preserve line breaks in the original. (Best viewed on a desktop computer; it may be hard to read in mobile format) End page 1, start page 2, which unfortunately is partially obscured in the auction image I have. The covered parts are indicated by ellipses; guesses on my part are indicated by brackets. After this, the rest of the document should include three more pages of encounters, and a map, none of which I have images of. On the Acaeum, Paul indicated that these pages would also include the following (which I also summarized earlier in this thread): "a "conjurer/monk (5th level)", a gelatinous cube and several magic items from Greyhawk Supplement are mentioned" A reference to "Yeenoghu, Demon Lord of Orcs"
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Post by Zenopus on Mar 14, 2021 23:01:48 GMT -6
As can be read above, the second page is the more interesting, particularly the long paragraph describing the features of the map, and the last bit, which appears to be the first encounter of the dungeon. More notes: * "a rather boring campaign--often called ... " where players can barely manage to keep up with the flood ...[ma]gic poured into their laps by the referee." This first style of DMing that Gygax disparages may be a "Monty Hall dungeon" or "giveway dungeon", although no text of this can be seen beyond the final quotation mark. In the Foreward to God, Demigods and Heroes in 1976 (published the same year as this demonstration was run at Origins II), Tim Kask writes that the publication is "our last attempt to reach the "Monty Hall" DM's. Perhaps now some of the 'giveaway' campaigns will look as foolish as they truly are." * "The other extreme, ... [killer] dungeon", sours participants even more rapidly." This second type of DMing style may be the "killer dungeon", or something similar. In the DMG, page 92, section "Placement of Magic Items", Gygax references both "Monty Haul" games followed by "killer-dungeons", echoing the paragraph here. * "[expan]ded to include additional features": I'm guessing on the "expanded" here based on the last three letters; it could alternately be "amended" or something else. This statement, plus the "based upon", may indicate that this level was changed from Gygax's original dungeon for purposes of the demonstration. * "...additional features, however, such as the ... northeastern corner of the map." Could this refer to the circle in the northeastern corner of Gygax's "binder map"? If so, what could this be? There does appear to be some kind marking in the middle of it that looks like a "T" or a number or a perhaps marking of a stair. On the other hand, the "northeastern corner" might refer to something added to the demonstration map that is not seen on the binder map, such as something to aid in running the demonstration. A compass? A key on the map? A marking, such as "START", indicating the entrance being used for the demo? The photo of Gygax running the demo does not appear to shed any light on this. * "The various symbols and ... are somewhat self-apparent." Paul indicated that the 5-page introduction/key was accompanied by a one page map that "doesn't have color coding. The big blown up map was probably colored-in for easier visuals." The instructions for the Dungeon Geomorphs: Set One (1976, again this is the same year as Origins II), also suggest adding color to note dungeon features: "Color will be helpful nothing such things as passageways which are slanted so as to lead upwards or downwards (perhaps green, with the letters "U" and "D", with appropriately pointing arrows to indicate the direction of the slant), gas areas, and special doors (non-resisting, wizard locked, intelligent, etc.)." * With the "Black lines are stone walls of a foot or two thickness", we get an acknowledgment of how thin those dungeon walls are in Gygax's full-sheet dungeons. * "[pits are] indicated by red "X" marks": I'm guessing that red X's denote pit traps, based on the deciphered key for Gygax's binder map of level one. * "Sloping ... green": Notably, the Dungeon Geomorphs also suggest using green to denote sloping passages (see full quote above). * "Teleporter rooms are delineated by yellow": The key to Gygax's binder shows a circle filled in with yellow with "Transporter" written next to it. OD&D Vol 3 uses "transporter" in the sample level: "Room "E" is a transporter, two ways, to just about anywhere the referee likes, including the center of the earth or the moon. The passage south containing "F" is a one-way transporter, and the poor dupes will never realize it unless a very large party (over 50' in length) is entering it". The Dungeon Geomorphs suggest "putting in areas where those who enter are teleported to a similar spot elsewhere", which appears to be what Gygax used for the binder map (the two yellow-colored areas are similarly L-shaped). * "the Dungeonmaster will ... extemporize as necessary during the course of play": Gygax's instruction here fits with his use of a minimal key in the binder map. The entries in the key appear to be a bit longer. * "TSR Hobbies, Inc booth": Paul mentioned that the document mentioned this text here on the Acaeum, and I've placed it where it seems likely. * From the partial description, the first dungeon encounter may be related to the "footsteps" encounter described by Rob Kuntz on Enworld last year: Gary's Immersion in Castle El Raja Key: The Four-Way FootstepsAlso note that the "binder map" key has an entry for "RUSTLING CORRIDOR - no bats", which may be an unexplained noise meant to make the party apprehensive. And the "Unexplained Sounds and Weird Noises" table in the DMG (pg 217), which among many other nosies includes six types of footsteps (ahead, approaching, behind, receding, side, faint) and "rustling".
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Post by asaki on Mar 15, 2021 0:06:00 GMT -6
Awesome, thanks =) The color codes will help a little bit, but we still need some eagle eyes to even make them out...
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Post by JasperAK on Mar 15, 2021 18:01:58 GMT -6
Thank you Zenopus. So Awesome.
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Post by cometaryorbit on Mar 18, 2021 17:01:02 GMT -6
This is super cool! Thank you!
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