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Post by smubee on May 13, 2016 23:41:20 GMT -6
Finally won a Holmes Basic D&D on eBay for a decent price (no box or dice, but it has the chits).
First of all, curiosity question : Were the chits before the dice were included, or were they in later printings because they ran out of dice?
Secondly, I'm aware that the game originally came with "In Search of the Unknown" module (which I own already), but the one that I won is including Keep on the Borderlands. Now, it's my understanding that Keep on the Borderlands started with the Moldvay basic, but I could be wrong.
I've never read it, so am looking forward to it. I own Moldvay basic, and Mentzer basic as well, so I'm more than capable to RUN it.
I'm just curious as to whether or not it's technically compatible with Holmes basic?
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Post by Porphyre on May 14, 2016 1:44:22 GMT -6
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Post by Zenopus on May 14, 2016 7:09:54 GMT -6
Smubee: Glad to hear you got one! From what I've heard the chits were in later printings when they ran out of dice. Take a look at the chronology of printings here: www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/basic.htmlAround the 5th print they started including chits, though some copies still had dice. Regarding B2, Porphyre posted a useful link.  If your copy of B2 has a Wizard Logo on the cover it is compatible with Holmes. If it has the Face Logo, it's for Moldvay Basic. Also check the monster stat blocks. If they have a DX (Dexterity) score, it's the version for Holmes. |
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Post by smubee on May 14, 2016 10:42:30 GMT -6
Smubee: Glad to hear you got one! From what I've heard the chits were in later printings when they ran out of dice. Take a look at the chronology of printings here: www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/basic.htmlAround the 5th print they started including chits, though some copies still had dice. Regarding B2, Porphyre posted a useful link. If your copy of B2 has a Wizard Logo on the cover it is compatible with Holmes. If it has the Face Logo, it's for Moldvay Basic. Also check the monster stat blocks. If they have a DX (Dexterity) score, it's the version for Holmes. Thanks for the information! |
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flightcommander
Level 6 Magician
"I become drunk as circumstances dictate."
Posts: 370
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Post by flightcommander on May 16, 2016 23:17:22 GMT -6
For what it's worth, I got my Holmes set very late in the print run — I think Moldvay came out a few months later — and it had the chit sheet. Still have it!
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Post by kenmeister on May 17, 2016 6:16:02 GMT -6
You might also want to check out my FAQ on the various versions of Classic. |
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Post by xerxez on May 21, 2016 9:43:04 GMT -6
The Holmes rulebook I recently ordered comes with the B2 Map in the GM reference pages. I knew it was that map, but was unfamiliar with the TSR Silver Edition reissue and thought someone had mixed it in (it was not attached but tucked in the book). But Zenopus' information clears it up!
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Post by Falconer on May 21, 2016 23:24:42 GMT -6
If your copy of B2 has a Wizard Logo on the cover it is compatible with Holmes. If it has the Face Logo, it's for Moldvay Basic. Also check the monster stat blocks. If they have a DX (Dexterity) score, it's the version for Holmes. I would just add that some people, myself included, feel that the original “Wizard Logo” B2 is the superior version in several respects. So, if you are looking to run B2 with *any* ruleset, whether it be OD&D or AD&D or whatever, make sure you get the “real” B2! |
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Post by smubee on May 24, 2016 12:37:15 GMT -6
If your copy of B2 has a Wizard Logo on the cover it is compatible with Holmes. If it has the Face Logo, it's for Moldvay Basic. Also check the monster stat blocks. If they have a DX (Dexterity) score, it's the version for Holmes. I would just add that some people, myself included, feel that the original “Wizard Logo” B2 is the superior version in several respects. So, if you are looking to run B2 with *any* ruleset, whether it be OD&D or AD&D or whatever, make sure you get the “real” B2! Well, fortunately for me I got the copy with the Wizard logo! Why do you believe that the Wizard logo version is superior to the other one? |
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Post by Falconer on May 24, 2016 15:47:30 GMT -6
Can anyone locate a comprehensive list of changes? If not, we can start one.
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Post by Zenopus on May 24, 2016 22:18:55 GMT -6
There's one I have linked from the ZA site, by Acaeum member brute: home.earthlink.net/~merzak/B2.htmlIt appears comprehensive, but I've never gone through it closely to confirm if he caught every change. As a kid, two changes that jumped out at me were the +1 flaming swords being changed to swords +2 (less cool), and the wand in the Caves being changed from fireballs to enemy detection (much less cool). |
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Post by magremore on May 25, 2016 20:20:01 GMT -6
One minor detail that bothered me (more than is rational probably!) about the BX B2 is the identical Corporals of the Guard in locations 20 and 23. In the original version, they’re both AC 2, which makes sense. But they are bumped to AC 0 in the later version with no explanation, so the assumption is they are both Dex 16 or 17. Not terrible, but annoyingly out-of-place in the Keep where, if my old notes are correct, the Castellan, his Advisor, and the Priest are the only other residents with a Dexterity bonus to their AC (and not a single resident with a penalty). I may have started with BX and 1e, but I’ve really come to dislike Dex modifying AC and come around to the active parry per Holmes w/ a Greyhawk-like bonus for every Dex point above 14, for those few times when parrying is a good idea. But I digress.
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