BE A FKR!

Either of these two quotes attributed to Gary Gygax could be the motto of the FKR movement:

• "The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules."
• "A DM only rolls the dice because of the noise they make."

I can't find the exact source of the quotes. Wikipedia's Talk:Gary Gygax page has this anonymous comment:


This could be referring to the Lejendary.com Forum (this is the version archived Aug 19 2008 by the Wayback Machine. Unfortunately, the Wayback Machine doesn't have the posts from this forum archived!).

I also searched the Dragonsfoot forums where Gary posted regularly as Col_Pladoh and discussed Lejendary Adventure and couldn't find anything there.

There's another source that attributes these quotes to Gary's review of Amber Diceless Roleplaying or maybe even advice Gary gave to Erick Wujcik when he was creating Amber.

Does anyone have the precise source (interview/article/book) for these quotes???

I found a couple of posts by Gary Gygax on the topic of Free Kriegsspiel in the Q&A with Gary Gygax on Dragonsfoot:



Posted Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:51 pm by Col_Pladoh. There is a follow-up later in the thread...



Henri De Catt's Free Kriegspiel Pages do not exist at the link in the post anymore. The link here goes to the version archived May 7 2005 in the Wayback Machine. For the overview of Free Kriegspiel you want to click the link on the sidebar called Map Kriegspiel archived May 10 2005 in the Wayback Machine.

Delayed due to health issues (sleep apnea.) Maybe this weekend I can get my fat old hairy butt in gear.

Of interest to the FKRs around here... A recent post in Christopher Kubasik's "Traveller: Out of the Box" blog series traces connections between the Classic Traveller personal combat system, OD&D's alternative combat system, and -- you guessed it! -- Free Kriegsspiel.

Looking forward to the Manifesto!

Rulings over rules, that seems right for the OSR too

Rulings are not rules they are perceptions. People dislike arbitrary rulings. Gygax would cheat as a DM..his own brother knew this and would try to prepare for it. Do you want to play with a DM who cheats, rules to his own favor just becsuse he says he can. I'll skip playing with FKRs, as they can be FKTARDS whose games center on thier enjoyment alone.

Yes, this, exactly. The basic premise of Free Kriegspiel is that the umpire / referee / GM must be scrupulously honest in every way for the game - no 'fudging', no moving the ambush to get in the players' way, no making crap up on the fly to do the dirty to the players. The GM must know the setting inside and out, must know how that setting works the same way, and must be able to rule instantly and consistently so that the players know how the setting works and that the GM is working within the reality of that setting. There must be mutual trust between players and GM; they need to know that I'm totally neutral, and the setting is what's out to get them. NPCs must be viable and realistic, situations the same, and the players part of that.

Otherwise, it's a total waste of time for everyone.

So, you came into my thread purely to be obnoxious?

Also, Gary Gygax didn't HAVE a brother.

Show us on the doll where the referee's ruling touched you in a bad way.

Despite my error in the Gygax family tree, it is the truth. I used your own covertly offensive wording not seeing an issue. Since there is, my apologies.

We'll just have to disagree then, because there are just as many successful campaigns where the DM is perfectly mature enough and capable enough of making rulings vs. rules.

I would imagine we don't hear about them nearly as much, as most people don't write about loving their campaign, only hating it.

If you'd like to talk to the 30 or so folks who've played in my campaign, I'd be happy to put you on our mailing list and you could ask how rulings vs. rules works in my campaign from the players who seem to enjoy it enough to keep coming back.

Well, this is not a thread about what is or is not Old School, or RPGs, or anything else.

This thread is for the promotion of the Free Kriegsspiel Renaissance, and if it turns into some sort of pissing contest I'll just ask the mods to kill it.

The rules can't fix stupid, and the rules can't fix @$$hole. That is the great truth of the FKR.

If you dislike it why do you keep returning? All you're doing is disrupting a conversation that by your own admission you have no interest in.

That can work, but everybody has to know that you're basically experimenting. This is perfectly all right; not everybody knows every setting cold, and learning can be part of Free Kriegsspiel as well.

Another way to think of it: It started when professional officers got tired of huge tomes of books and used an umpire with total authority.

HOWEVER, that umpire was a very experienced officer. Both the umpire and all players knew how many men in a regiment, range of a musket, etc. So the umpire's judgements weren't just yanked out of his butt crack; they were reasoned judgements of a seasoned officer.

Just like when I referee CHAINMAIL, if two bodies of troops melee and they're roughly the same size and type, I don't even bother with the "end of turn morale" unless one unit rolled way over average. This is because the morale system, provided casualties are roughly equal, will give "melee continues". I KNOW this; I don't need to check.

Similarly, playing TRACTICS and I'm the ref. If your Sherman is stationary and you're firing at an enemy tank-size target at 24" and you roll a 1-3 on the d20 (low is good) I'm not even going to calculate the modifiers; I KNOW you hit. Similarly, a tank moving over 8" when it fires, if you roll over a 17, I KNOW you've missed. In between comes the point where I check the tables. Everybody who has played TRACTICS much does the "roll first, then calculate modifiers if needed."

Does this help?