OD&D and Gothic Horror

[Deleted]

Gentlemen, ladies,

It's the reason for the season: I want to take your friendly neighborhood S&S gaming group into holes of horrifying horrors - without changing systems. What do?

Yours,

Rafe, carving the pumpkin - oh, that sounded bad!

[Finarvyn]

I would take a peek at the original Ravenloft module and/or the original Ravenloft boxed set for inspiration, as a lot of AD&D stuff can be run straight out with OD&D without any real tweaks.

I think one key might be to focus on classic cimema-style horror monsters such as vampires, mummies, skeletons, golems (Frankenstein), and the like. Make liberal use of undead. Force a number of fear checks, perhaps as a wisdom save.

[Merctime]

Oct 1, 2014 3:48:48 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

I think one key might be to focus on classic cimema-style horror monsters such as vampires, mummies, skeletons, golems (Frankenstein), and the like. Make liberal use of undead. Force a number of fear checks, perhaps as a wisdom save.

I think this is the way I'd go, myself, also. Stick with the classics! And the fear check idea I think is great, too, Finarvyn!

If I wanted 'really' creepy, as in perhaps not playing with kids, I might have a look at the random spawn of shub-niggurath tables in Carcosa for some really grotesque boogers! Might be over-the-top for the spirit of your game, however.

[oakesspalding]

Barrowmaze?

[Vile Traveller]

The Maze of Nuromen?

[cadriel]

Jack Shear has been doing this for a while now and has both a blog and several books worth of material out to support just such a playing style.

His blog: Tales of the Grotesque and Dungeonesque
The Lulu store with his print books: www.lulu.com/spotlight/JackShear

[Deleted]

Thank you, guys! I for my part (as you all might know already), am a big (one of the biggest, actually) fans of the Ravenloft setting.

Now, the trick is, that one, in my opinion, does not work with D&D rules, at ALL, because most aventures require such a a degree of social rp'ing. (WOD, or Ars Magica work pretty well there, though.)

...I'll write a scenario one of these days, and let you know how it develops... Carcosa seems a likely backdrop, because I am notoriously lazy...

[coffee]

I'd say a big thing with Gothic horror in D&D would be to limit the clerical power on hand. If the players know that there's no Raise Dead available, it will affect their behavior. And remember that the horror aspect is psychological, as opposed to physical.

Also, Vampires and such have many minions; the actual Vampire would be tough to get at. (And Ravenloft probably addresses this; I've never read it.)

Just my thoughts.

[xerxez]

I'm with you guys! Just posted on my blog about using the old 1975 Night of the Death Cult Spanish creep cinema flick as the basis for a D&D scenario! Creepy....this is my favorite time of the year....

jennerak.blogspot.com/

[llenlleawg]

Oct 7, 2014 8:02:54 GMT -6 coffee said:

I'd say a big thing with Gothic horror in D&D would be to limit the clerical power on hand. If the players know that there's no Raise Dead available, it will affect their behavior. And remember that the horror aspect is psychological, as opposed to physical.

Also, Vampires and such have many minions; the actual Vampire would be tough to get at. (And Ravenloft probably addresses this; I've never read it.)

Just my thoughts.

I'm not sure I'd limit clerical power, as such. As you note, the main problems that Gothic monsters pose are not so much physical (although they are that), but psychological, moral, spiritual, etc. More to the point, what good is Raise Dead if the victim is under a terrible curse, for example, or is hopelessly mad? Similarly, consider a mummy's rotting touch, which is an excellent kind of curse. Why? Because it's not that the rot itself needs to kill you. It just makes it nearly impossible ever to be back to full health again. It's the lingering corruption that makes the mummy rot fare more Gothic, thematically, than, say, the level-draining powers of wights, wraiths, spectres, and vampires. The ghost's power to age his victims is similarly more Gothic. Start your combat a young, hale 20-year-old and, if you're not careful, you'll and your combat aged 80+. There's nothing Raise Dead can do about that!

That vampires have minions is also important, and a good reason, I think, not to limit Turn Undead. A cleric entering a vampire's territory needs to be very careful about using his clerical powers. If he does, the vampire's spies will inform their lord. The lord may not know how powerful the cleric is, but he's potentially a real threat, so the vampire will assault the party with wolves, his spawned vampires, charmed mortals, etc. The dilemma is to survive long enough in the vampire's domain to even get a chance to drive a stake in its heart!

[Deleted]

FWIW, I am thinking about using Barovia/Ravenloft, after all, but in a rather unconventional way:

The city of Valaki, from the classic 2e Hyskosa AP, makes for a good backdrop to one-shots.
I can see myself doing something along the lines of "The Long Halloween" (the comic book) in there,
since the main DM has expressed in having me doing something parallel to his campaign for a longer period of time than just the Halloween weekend/whatever.

Reduction is always the best element for horror, and in this case, even on a meta-level, concerning the rule system;
and one of the reasons that I think D&D (later editions) is somewhat unfit for proper horror, is that the sense of awe goes away pretty quickly with the levels.
As coffee hinted at, one good cleric can spoil an entire horror scenario.

...Well, we'll see what I make of it, I guess...

[sepulchre]

Ilenlleawg wrote:

What good is Raise Dead if the victim is under a terrible curse, for example, or is hopelessly mad? A (mummy's rotting touch) just makes it nearly impossible ever to be back to full health again...There's nothing Raise Dead can do about that!

Well said.

It's the lingering corruption that makes the mummy rot fare more Gothic,

Agreed

...than, say, the level-draining powers of wights, wraiths, spectres, and vampires.

The loss of levels is the corruption, the insanity, the loss of connection with your own affinities, talents and life experience and short of a miracle (see restoration) can only be restored by living, being your character, i.e, experience points.

The ghost's power to age his victims is similarly more Gothic. Start your combat a young, hale 20-year-old and, if you're not careful, you'll and your combat aged 80+.

While I like the idea of the ghost, the aging is problematic, though it is wonderfully descriptive, it's not something that lends well to the mechanics. Aging as a visible sign or taint of level loss is a better fit.

That vampires have minions (spies, wolves, spawn, etc.)...a good reason not to limit Turn Undead. The dilemma is to survive long enough in the vampire's domain to even get a chance to drive a stake in its heart!

Indeed.

[Deleted]

Launched the campaign yesterday, here's a writeup. Pretty much a standard game, or rather, one pretty much in the style like I usually run them:

www.fraternityofshadows.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9105

I'll drop a few notes on my hybrid system some time soon.