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Post by sepulchre on May 6, 2016 19:15:14 GMT -6
The abstraction and what is assumed by it is very much in play in this thread - worth revisiting: Link: Critical Hits
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Post by sepulchre on Feb 24, 2016 11:24:44 GMT -6
Kesher, I have to say, I tried reading both and found them deserving of much of the criticism they received; inert and often self-referential. Rather disappointed actually, I thoroughly enjoy Gygax's prose in the AD&D manuals and some of his articles in Dragon.
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Post by sepulchre on Feb 13, 2016 19:39:08 GMT -6
chicagowiz wrote:
I have been framing xp this way for sometime, I like Jeff's layout here very much.
gronanofsimmeryia wrote:
Well said. May not be the only way to award XP, but it explicates the framework provided and informs how one might embellish or reduce it.
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Post by sepulchre on Feb 10, 2016 1:37:33 GMT -6
Yeah, I listen to a lot of ambient drone artists; Oophoi, Robert Rich, Steve Roach, Thomas Koner etc.
Yes, I grew up with the likes of Alphaville, Depeche mode, Camouflage, Trisomie 21, The Clan of Xymox, New Order, Click Click, Color Box and so many others...speaking of 80's synth, all marvelous for its time and some still get rotation here and there.
Was never a fan of Tangerine dream, Vangelis and or the likes of Schulze (Moondawn is okay though) and Kitaro - too much movement I guess. Now Jean-Michael Jarre had a great album (side 2) that focused on Jacques Cousteau...I will admit I do like Tangerine Dreams' Phaedra.
Holst's the Planets and Wagner to be sure; the Excalibur Soundtrack remains a favorite.
Old school country...you mean back when they just called it 'western'?
I know Earth; though Dead Meadow was new to me. Orange Goblin is good, but I would prefer they push it to eleven like Nightkin (former Black Dahlia and Red Chord members). When it comes to doom I tend to like where it meets black metal so bands like Wolvserpent and Wolves in the Throne Room are favorites.
Oooo... Sagor and Swing hits the sweet spot, just wish there was less percussion. Anyway, thanks!!
Wow, Camel; had never known them, very progy...sort of a lot of Jethro Tull, the Alman Brothers, Yes, maybe a little Rush and Floyd and then their own oddness!
"Mellowtron and early synths like the Moog and MiniMoog, ARP 2600 and EMS synths" - this will aid my ongoing search, but "fog on the barrow downs" is a keeper!
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Post by sepulchre on Feb 9, 2016 13:22:08 GMT -6
Ghul wrote:
Hey, thanks Ghul, yeah, they are pretty cool.
However, I was really asking, does anyone know of any moog-driven ambient bands (then or now) whose sound is similar to that of Bo Hansson's Fog on the Barrow downs"?
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Post by sepulchre on Feb 6, 2016 13:17:10 GMT -6
Machfront wrote:
While I cannot even remotely agree with this as there is some brilliant metal out there holding the primal, dark and daring spirit of the protagonists and antagonists of our games; this link is gold! Thank you Machfront!
Reminds me of the music of the In Search of Series.
Anyone know of any other musicians or bands that have this kind of sound btw?
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 22, 2016 12:18:27 GMT -6
Falconer wrote:
5E or for that matter any of WOTC products and OD&D are so vastly desperate, it is not a system with which OD&D would be well-framed
No idea, but there is a system in which work for publication is meant to be framed, according to the links.
Under the OGL one may publish work for profit without having to be concerned about the current edition WOTC is peddling. Moreover, one could produce material that is campaign specific to one of WOTC's I.Ps should the earliest OGL be updated to include campaign worlds. From your words, your 'hope' is that more campaign specific I.Ps would be added in the current WOTC platform. However, it appears to me the current idea could have been initiated through the earliest version of the OGL, rather than WOTCs current manifestation. I suspect that decision is deliberate and has consequences for anyone in the OSR who wishes to make their work available to them.
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 21, 2016 13:40:44 GMT -6
Where in print do you see the latitude for publishing in any other system format other than the current edition. WOTC would have to revise the first OGL to include campaign specific I.P identities for earlier editions, no?
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 21, 2016 13:33:54 GMT -6
Your mechanics would have to conform to the 5E framework, correct? Or is that immaterial to your effort?
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 21, 2016 13:22:06 GMT -6
I see. Given that WOTC owns the trademarks and copyrights on all of TSR's old campaign worlds, and none are released under the OGL by which one might produce for-profit material; your concern is that other product identity like FR, will follow suit within the current WOTC initiative.
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 21, 2016 12:46:00 GMT -6
Falconer, perhaps you might cite some text from within that meets my question as you understand it and more plainly illustrates your concerns? Having read this before, it is unclear to me how this changes the latitude the OSR has enjoyed under the auspices of the OGL? As I read this, it updates the guidelines and initiates a fetching framework for anyone who wishes to contribute materials for publication by WOTC.
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 21, 2016 12:35:28 GMT -6
Falconer wrote:
Understood and I share a like mind when it comes to producing materials. That said, maybe you or Falconer can clarify this for me; if independently produced work is still legal under the open gaming license, how is this material to Blackmoor, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk or whatever being sourced by WOTC for current publication? Perhaps there's some aspect of the fine print in the OGL I am failing read here?
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 21, 2016 2:31:53 GMT -6
Maybe someone can explain to me why anyone here should care? I don't say that to be insulting or even at the least flippant. If all the former material is retrofitted to 5E is this not just another reordering of the deck chairs on a vessel that effectively sank in the minds of many decades ago. What is the hope one might hold out for here, or have I missed it and this thread should just be indulged as the starry-eyed potential of bringing new people to the hobby as framed by WOTC?
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 17, 2016 20:23:46 GMT -6
Scottyg wrote:
I think this was Cooper's point, alignment "is not about behavior", though behavior can be indicative of alignment.
Gronanofsimmerya wrote:
Yes, I was tragically incapable of interpreting Moldvay at 14. As mentioned above, a stronger iteration of the three alignments would have been insightful, even at 14.
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 16, 2016 16:23:55 GMT -6
For centuries academically trained religious scholars, clergy, and theologians have framed apologetics around the leading philosophical tradition of the day and even ideologically in our postmodern era. Through my time at university and afterward I eventually found this to be a rather backward endeavor, barring it's initial phase when it took shape through the language of Plato, Aristotle and the Scholastics. That said, the leading philosophical or rather ideological trend, speaking contemporaneously, more or less presents the prevailing mindset or underlying thread in the society at large, yet rarely if ever presents a dialectic which looks backwards in the hopes of bringing the past forward. No one in secular society gives a hoot about Plato, Aristotle, Anselm, Aquinas, Bart, Lewis, Kung or Tillich just to name a few. Hence, engaging secular frameworks with the intent of making plain religious language in my experience turns out to be sheer folly. No one cares, really. There was a time in the postwar era of the 20th century when religion was vigorously debated in the literature of modernity and by civil and religious elites on BBC or in the editorial pages of the Times, but that time has long since past.
The idea that fantasy (fantasy not [ph]antasy, and here the connotations are philosophically critical, see Hobbes or really Plato)lends itself to religiosity or religious experience may have some credulity with children (and even that may be a stretch for many)but not adults. The divide of subject and object in modernity, the misguided reduction of everything to a material cause, and the self-absorbed orientation with the "self" today means that much of fantasy is an allowance we permit to our private selves and in some cases claim we deserve, like going out to eat at the latest restaurant, watching television, playing golf, buying the latest car model, or going on vacation. Fantasy is a pastime, and its likeness to religion does not make religion any the more accessible. To paraphrase, the American Indian just thought us to be a breed apart.
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 15, 2016 18:02:53 GMT -6
Yeah, I recall hearing that his notion of alignment began with Moorcock. However Moorcock was very much influenced by Anderson, who in turn drew from Tolkien among other influences.
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 15, 2016 17:52:56 GMT -6
Tetramorph wrote:
Feel much the same way. I keep the description pointed but brief and in the third person. Dialogue is usually first person for referee and player alike. And yes, most of the dice is in the hands of the referee, while the result is then described rather than if one fails or succeeds with 6 or whatever.
If by "storytelling" we mean dramatic description, then this conforms to that definition. As others have mentioned it is nice to see players having a good time, and that is something to which we can all relate.
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 15, 2016 13:23:57 GMT -6
Certainly, a means to kindle sales of 5th edition manuals and net talent for their own products. As WOTC has possession of the copyrights I can't imagine that will bring this endeavor to a halt. As for conflicting narratives, I imagine many will coexist within the framework, whereas WOTC will choose pieces that specifically support an official narrative the company has adopted for their own products. If past products are added to the roster of reference materials, it's true this could be quite an expansion of the OGL.
Even then according the interview, it appears older materials are meant to be refitted to 5E.
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 15, 2016 11:20:41 GMT -6
mindcontrolsquid wrote: As was I. If you haven't read these threads,I think you will find Bargle/Cooper's posts soundly speak to and expand on your inclinations. www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55321#p1206862 odd74.proboards.com/thread/9478/alignment-conundrum#page=1odd74.proboards.com/thread/7832/gives-alignment"...alignments inspiration has its roots there and more so in Tolkien's essays on Beowulf where he divides real world c.650 AD into christian/heathen/monstrous, specifically towards the former two (historical mindsets) treatment of the latter mythological". - Bargle As part of a literary tradition growing out of Beowulf and the works of Tolkien and finding codification in his essays and the work of Three Hearts and Three Lions by Poul Anderson, I think the three-tiered alignment system is important to the character of FRPGs, however, in print it deserves better exponents to speak to its meaning.
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 15, 2016 10:15:39 GMT -6
I think part of the problem with the argument is rooting goodness in the defense of civilization. The justification for killing is fitting for an argument advanced from a lawful neutral position, one that really resembles Hammurabi's code. Even Dietrich Bohhoeffer confessed his own sin in his involvement with an assassination attempt on Adolph Hitler. His struggle speaks to the double-effect ethic at the heart of all worldly aspirations for justice.
Also the paladin is problematic. The paladin may have divine sanction, but a crusader he is not. He is the paragon of chivalry, a romantic and Arthurian figure, devoted to the quest. The crusader really is caught in the unfortunate mace-wielding order of the cleric. That said I have always looked to the dervish as an initial template for the military orders.
Killing is a culpable act, all of the great religious traditions wrestle with it. Though the framework is fantasy, the question is a moral hypothetical and thus bares a semblance of reality. Murdering or executing the brigands should pose a moral quandary and one each player and character will live with rather than resolve.
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 10, 2016 16:34:40 GMT -6
Ralph Pinthus wrote:
Sure, the instinct and possibly permission players embrace is in question. So too is this misplaced opposition between sandbox and script.
Sandbox is the setting, each setting has hooks, the hook can be developed by the referee or elaborated with a "script".
The issue appears to be whether or not one preps the hooks in the sandbox themselves, or uses a module/script for the hook. The argument advanced by one voice being integrating someone else's material one has surrendered one's creativity. I imagine Kuntz penned all of those "scripts" so he could disabuse players of their imagination.
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 10, 2016 10:36:04 GMT -6
hillcantons.blogspot.com/2011/08/no-borders-or-limits-conversation-with.htmlLet's be clear here, Kuntz doesn't reject modules. He comes out against the codification of rules that took shape with AD&D, the result of a marketing initiative to sell packaged and designed adventures, against the formulaic promotion of modules via conventions and the RPGA, the overuse of the A-B-C linear design of module writing (which he appears to refer to as "dungeon adventures") and the recycling of tropes and typical monsters, some of which he concedes were done in "good ways". Kuntz's is recoiling at what he considered a limitation on his creativity and what he refers to in module design as "dull". He writes, "the DM’s route to any fantastic achievement in such literature was through a very personal course, most certainly inspired by reading and study or other such related matter, but not actually “implanted” or done for them. I see it as would an engineer who designs, tests and then builds a car. There is great worth in all of its many stages and definitely in the end result and it is all yours". Secondly, he is dismayed by the corporate consolidation of TSR to expand markets and grow revenue. Something, many of us I expect, find disturbing on a global perspective. As an author of modules, himself, (parts of S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, The Original Bottle City, Garden of the Plant Master to name a few) he writes, "Thus my philosophical quandary was resolved by adhering to a design-path that will ultimately end when I see no more creative expansion within it. While adhering to this notion I have always hoped to inspire others to emulate a truly creative and mixed path that will in turn expose new possibilities in design for both DMs and aspiring designers".
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 9, 2016 22:07:44 GMT -6
Raphael Pinthus wrote:
Well said. I think literacy in general has always been endangered, unless one grew up in the former Soviet Union and many parts of Europe. Literacy, however, no longer means solely books, which are now considered just one of many forms of media. For the attention deficient, books demand more than many younger players are willing to surrender of themselves. Sadly, console gaming and comic books drive the imagination and context for most of them.
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 9, 2016 21:53:58 GMT -6
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Post by sepulchre on Jan 9, 2016 16:51:02 GMT -6
gronanofsimmerya wrote:
The setting of Greyhawk and the modules to supplement it are some of Gary's finest work. I am sure that when he published them he was not imagining they would squelch the imagination. More so and much to his credit, this work elaborated aspects common to history and fantasy in the imagination of most players. A gift really.
There is some truth to this, however, it's not just a millennial issue; much of the society as a whole can't handle responsibility without a script and this seeps into the small niche of gaming to be sure.
Dirtskull wrote:
And this is precisely where the debate begins, that is, in how the sandbox, the campaign world or setting, is handled.
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Post by sepulchre on Dec 28, 2015 19:16:58 GMT -6
Rex wrote: Sorry, Rex; totally missed this, noted and amended above.
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Post by sepulchre on Dec 28, 2015 0:41:42 GMT -6
Echoing Scottenkainen and Vile, A3 Assault on the Aerie of the Slave Lords, - just a brilliant S&S city adventure, complete in itself, but offers plenty of room to elaborate and expand. One party attempted to cut off the capital (funding)of the slave lords by making an assault on the treasury; they went out in a blaze of glory, an epic TPK. Second to that would be A2 Secret of the Slaver's Stockade; one has the choice to infiltrate the garrison by stealth or besiege it - both quite fun though the latter may bring on a tpk, not to mention an overland wilderness prologue that can prove perilous. I love D1-3 (Descent into the Depths of the Earth, Shrine of the Kua Toa, The Vault of the Drow)just for the sheer challenge of attrition and the alien wilderness of the underdark, wandering monster encounters which can crush your party, battling the Kua-tua in the hundreds if one is rash or brazen, the harrowing engagements with the drow (who are completely badass), and the edgy and sinister feel of the city, Erelhei-Cinlu. Lastly, though very low-magic campaigns tend to be my forcus, S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, I find to be the height of FRPG material both in presentation and elegance.
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Post by sepulchre on Dec 15, 2015 15:14:51 GMT -6
oldkat, you don't have to provide an apologetic; it's not a jest, it's just his way of making himself feel important. Your question is entirely valid; nonetheless, I think Stormcrow and Gronan have it. Waysofthearth's response is going to be your middle ground.
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Post by sepulchre on Nov 29, 2015 12:38:53 GMT -6
Cults, Survivals and Superstitions
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Post by sepulchre on Nov 25, 2015 11:06:20 GMT -6
The basis of all of these characters (fighting men, enchanters, whatever) is Chainmail in which individual figures and units (List or Mass combat pieces)are static (no advancement required) regarding x,y and z abilities. "Advancement", i.e, earning xp, is a convention designed for the explicit purpose of "roleplaying" and the war game figure is recognized as a "player character" or otherwise a "monster", both conventions or definitions intended to meet said purpose. That classes are given abilities rather than skills is a vestige of the static quality of war gaming units. Hence, the class abilities which may be staggered by levels and acquired by experience actually reflect the implied abilities (rather than applied through experience points) of wargaming figures or units. A ranger is 1in6 to be surprised and 3in6 to surprise, no experience points required; in Deities and Demigods 0-lvl snow witches of the northern tribes may cast control weather when 5 are gathered for 1 day. In Gygax's Greyhawk glossography there are devotees of particular gods advancing 1 lvl as an assassin for every 6 lvls as a cleric, there are 0-lvl scouts given the same benefit of surprise as rangers, etc. Rather, consider your subclass like a monster/unit/figure, keep the mechanics simple and elegant, and worry less about xp. There are many kinds of "subclasses" to be invented in this way, all completely falling within the rules given the war gaming background of the game. Should one understand the game through this heritage, there are normal men who may take up arms and become fighting men while other normals may not, all may or may not have specific and static abilities like the snow witches (above), the ranger, or a normal man who surprises 3in6 and is himself surprised 1in6. That is to say, the variety of "subclasses" or even classes may be found even with just sticking with one class (say the fighting man) or no classes at all (normal man of noble birth who has taken up arms and might be a knight, or normal man and non-combatant who has taken up dweomercraft to become spell caster of sorts, like the witches mentioned above) and merely giving abilities you deem appropriate to the concept. Note: the implied or assumed character of abilities (rather than applied through levels of experience)greatly reduces the spectre of power-creep in the game.
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