Searching for Traps MEGATHREAD (combines multiple threads)

[retrorob]

to begin with - I don't use thief class & skills nor I roll for finding traps. I describe a situation, the players tell what they wanna do. if there is a trap and they come near it, it springs at 1-2 on d6. secret doors they find on 1-2/d6. Dwarves - no rolls at all, noting traps, slanting/shifting walls and passages are their innate skills by the book. Good to have a dwarf in your party!

[Malchor]

May 8, 2020 8:51:42 GMT -6 retrorob said:

to begin with - I don't use thief class & skills nor I roll for finding traps. I describe a situation, the players tell what they wanna do. if there is a trap and they come near it, it springs at 1-2 on d6. secret doors they find on 1-2/d6. Dwarves - no rolls at all, noting traps, slanting/shifting walls and passages are their innate skills by the book. Good to have a dwarf in your party!

This is fairly close to what I do—or did before.

And yes, diversity in the party helps. Sadly, this party is sans dwarf due to a player dropping out.

For this campaign, I almost left out the thief class and was considering giving everyone their skills that would rise in level with their chosen class level. No adjustments based on race, but rather using the thief dex based adjustments from The Strategic Review. That away you can have a Conan type. As to Paladins and Lawful characters, they would have the abilities, but would not mean they have to use them, choices to make use of certain skills could have negative implications depending on context. But that is another topic/thread.

[aldarron]

What I do derives from this passage in BTPbD:

"Doors, Traps, and Secret Passages:
Secret passages will be located by a roll of 1 or 2 by a dwarf, and a roll of 1 by a man or elf."

Although the sentence only says "secret passages" the heading pretty strongly implies all three.

There was some discussion of dwarves and traps in this thread

[delta]

I agree with your current ruling; that's how I've always done it. The fact that both listening and finding secret doors are 2-in-6 seems to imply that general searching-type stuff follows that same pattern.

I do think there has to be some randomized mechanic for stuff that's too fine-tuned for players to really narratively interact with. For example, a special sense that elves or dwarves have in cases that would be invisible to normal humans. Likewise, I stick to the original description of thieves disarming traps: "remove small trap devices (such as poisoned needles)". That seems clearly predicated on PC dexterity, not player descriptiveness, so a skill roll makes sense. For larger traps like a pit or falling door, that becomes something that the whole party has to think about narratively.

[Piper]

May 8, 2020 10:08:41 GMT -6 Malchor said:

For this campaign, I almost left out the thief class and was considering giving everyone their skills that would rise in level with their chosen class level. No adjustments based on race, but rather using the thief dex based adjustments from The Strategic Review. That away you can have a Conan type. As to Paladins and Lawful characters, they would have the abilities, but would not mean they have to use them, choices to make use of certain skills could have negative implications depending on context. But that is another topic/thread.

Kunz mentioned this once upon a time, an idea he never approached EGG with during the development of the GH supplement for OD&D. I found this online and thought it interesting. Since it has similar thoughts to what you had here, I thought I'd pass it along. I call it the Thief Para-Class since it's added on to a PC's existing class. You may find some good idea for your own campaign!

Greyhawk Page 4: Men & Magic
Characters (Additions and Changes)
Fighting men (including Paladins)
Magic-Users
Clerics

And: Most classes may choose to add new Abilities known only to Thieves, as follows:

1. Any character not of Lawful alignment may add Thief.
2. Once Thief is added, all XP is divided equally between the original class and Thief (see table of advancement).
3. A character with Thief ability may at any time choose to permanently forego Thief progress. XP is no longer divided thereafter, but no further progress as Thief can ever occur normally (though some magical progress may be possible, such as by reading certain Tomes or using certain Artifacts). All abilities remain usable at the percentage chance of success previously obtained.
4. Thief skills (abilities) are gained as given on the chart (Greyhawk pg 11): Open Locks, Remove Traps, Pickpocket, Move Silently, Hide in Shadows, Hear Noise.

Notes: Move Silently and Hide in Shadows are possible only if not wearing metal armor of any sort. Failure at the Remove Traps roll generally does not activate the trap. In this case a character may immediately try again to Remove the Trap, and this second attempt will almost certainly activate the trap if unsuccessful. All Thieves belong to a special Guild of such, and acquire their training thereby, in standard fashion. n.b.: Outside this Guild, no Thief is ever forced to reveal his Thief status, though over time such may become obvious to his or her fellow party members.

Cooperation: When more than one character with Thief ability attempts to Open Locks, Remove Traps, or Pickpocket (these three only), ADD the individual percentage chances of success to determine the joint chance, which action takes the same time as an individivudal attempt. If multiple characters are engaged in Trap Removal when the trap activates, and if the trap is target-specific (rather than an area effect), randomly determine which of the participating Thieves is targeted. Example: A character of Footpad (L2) status has a 15% chance to remove a trap, an action which normally takes 1 turn (10 minutes). If four Footpads cooperate, the cumulative chance is 60%, again taking 1 turn to execute.

Locks & Traps (modifiers): Note than an advanced Master Thief may have a listed 100% chance of success in these endeavors. This is by no means absolute. Certain locks may be rusty or specially made; traps may be unusually well-crafted or otherwise more difficult. Given such a rationale, the DM may apply a penalty (in 5% increments, i.e. -10%, -25%, etc.) to the attempt at handling such a lock or trap. However, this should in fairness be made known to the player in some general way (e.g. "The trap seems to be unusually small and well-protected..."). However, such devices should be infrequently encountered by parties and Thieves of lower levels.

[talysman]

The way I handle it:

Large Traps (covered pits, tripwires, deadfalls, etc.): Automatically detected by anyone, even humans, if there is light and a clear line of sight. Usually either the trigger is obvious or the payload is obvious, but not both. Which one is detectable depends on the trap description. For example, a tripwire leading through a hole in the wall would be obvious, but what is triggered would not be.

Concealed Trap Elements: Only detected if the character looks in the right direction or at the right surface. This can be as simple as saying "I search for traps" and is automatic, but takes at least half a turn for one person to search one square (10' x 10'). If no one has either Int or Wis above 8, or if there is poor light, mist, or other poor conditions, this requires a 5+ on 1d6 roll.

Small traps (like on a trapped chest): Requires a roll to find unless the character is a thief, has INT/Wis above 12, or has some other excuse. This detects the trigger and possibly the delivery system (needle holes,) but doesn't necessarily identify what the exact effects will be (what kind of poison is on the needles, for example.) Larger triggers like a pressure plate in front of a chest would count as Large Traps.

Dwarves: When underground, they get to kick discovery chances up one tier. So, a concealed trap underground can be detected with a roll if not actively searching, or without a roll even under poor light conditions when actually searching. Dwarves count as thieves when searching for small concealed traps underground, but have no special ability to disable such traps.

[hamurai]

Unless the party moves carelessly, I usually have searching dwarves find non-magical (unless mechanically triggered like any other trap) traps 5-in-6. If not searching for traps they get 3-in-6.
We've always played this as a very good ability which probably comes from my original roots in HeroQuest, where dwarves have a knack with traps and can disarm them without tools.

[dicebro]

5 ways to find traps underground in OD&D (3LBBs with no Thief Class):
1) hire a cleric with cleric spells & scrolls: “find traps”
2) bring a dwarf, all of them “note traps underground”
3) hire a magic user with “wand of secret doors and trap detection”
4) hire a fighter with an intelligent sword’s “detect traps” power
5) hire low level flunkies to walk point in advance of the party…lots of them if possible. Promise them the moon, they won’t live long enough to collect.

edit: and 6) use the ten foot pole!

[grodog]

May 8, 2020 20:42:03 GMT -6 Piper said:

May 8, 2020 10:08:41 GMT -6 Malchor said:

For this campaign, I almost left out the thief class and was considering giving everyone their skills that would rise in level with their chosen class level. No adjustments based on race, but rather using the thief dex based adjustments from The Strategic Review. That away you can have a Conan type. As to Paladins and Lawful characters, they would have the abilities, but would not mean they have to use them, choices to make use of certain skills could have negative implications depending on context. But that is another topic/thread.

Kunz mentioned this once upon a time, an idea he never approached EGG with during the development of the GH supplement for OD&D.

Piper : was what you quoted from RJK, or was there some other info about this idea that came up during the dev of Greyhawk Supplement I?

Allan.

[Deleted]

Trick question: If Admiral Ackbar joins the party, does this dramatically increase one's chances of noticing if it's a trap?

I'll show myself to the door, now.