Sneaking and Hiding without Thieves.

[jjarvis]

This just came to me the other night a nice simple way to do sneaking and hiding without the thief class.

Roll 1d20 and get the characters AC score for armor worn or less to resolve attempts at stealth that aren't clearly resolved by reason. So AC 9 , roll a 9 or less. AC2 roll a 2 or less.

If a character is sneaky 10 or more times (DM noted only) they are considered "sneaky" and so subtract 1/2 their level from the die roll. If you want improvement based on experience and level.

[snorri]

I use a system like that with 2d6 in Epées & Sorcellerie.

AC+level+dex mod. if any could be another solution.

[jjarvis]

I was surprised when I never realized it was as simple as check against AC. Armor has been factored in as a modifier dozens of times by folks using more complicated systems but i've never seen it just by itself.

[verhaden]

This is interesting. Supports the idea that things like plate armor, for example, are more detrimental to sneaking than, say, leather.

[coffee]

That is a very elegant system! Have an exalt for that.

[korgoth]

Nice idea. If you use a Dex bonus for adjusting AC, you could use the bonus as a modifier to the roll (so a -1 AC bonus and no armor succeeds on a 10 or less).

D20's a bit rough, though! Why not Xd6, where X is tied to the prevailing conditions? X=2 for great sneaking conditions, =3 for less favorable conditions, =4 for really difficult situations.

[jjarvis]

d20 works for me, With AC 9 that's a 45% chance of success. Not too shabby.

Dex bonuses could be figured in to the benefit of a character if you use them.

[Matthew]

Pretty neat. I would probably end up converting it to a percentage based roll, so I could use the dexterity attribute as a percentage modifier [e.g. (4 x AC + Dexterity), but this is nice and quick.

[bluskreem]

Feb 6, 2009 9:34:05 GMT -6 snorri said:

I use a system like that with 2d6 in Epées & Sorcellerie.

AC+level+dex mod. if any could be another solution.

You have solved the main problem of my Original Edition Characters game. I've got to players who love playing Thieves, but are playing Fighters. They'll be over joyed when i introduce this system (I might just have to add a space on their character sheets for their stealth score. thank you very much.

[kesher]

You know, I'm beginning to believe that any game issue can be solved by simply contemplating the numbers on the character sheet long enough...

Very cool.

[dwayanu]

I can't remember just where, but someone recently posted a well-chosen selection of quotes from Gary about his ethos, with references to the Thief class (and AD&D, and his later FRP designs).

I think there's a tendency to get too "ideological" about approaches to adjudication when one has too long been unexposed to the trials of actual play.

The Ivory Tower Dept. could with impeccable consistency rip this technique to shreds with all the vehemence so often levied against (e.g.) RuneQuest's alleged heresy of a "skill system."

Some time ago, someone posted here the question of why he ought to turn to OD&D rather than keeping on with the "Basic / Expert" books with which he was comfortable. I would say that there is no warrant, if the choice is between getting on with the multi-player game or getting bogged down in the solo game of playing "game designer."

[kesher]

Dwayanu, I'm not sure what your point is here. I don't see anyone being "ideological", and the orignial idea (plus several responses) are rooted in actual play.

This is just some people kicking around iterations of an interesting homebrew idea. I apologize if I've misread your tone, but you seem oddly proscriptive.

[jjarvis]

I'm not a thief hater or in favor of banning them forever. I've simply been playing a version of the rules that just doesn't have them and came up with a mechanic for a situation typically felt to be a thief's skill based on numbers folks already have on their character sheets.

[miked]

I like those, very simple to resolve and the armor is a great factor. Nice.

[snorri]

The same basis could apply to things like acrobatics moves, jumps and so on, if you plays wuxia od&d.

[dwayanu]

My point was against proscription! I happen to think it splendid that a DM should use whatever methods work for him, regardless of whether they might look like "systems." There's a segment of our "old school" demographic, though, prone to attacking such approaches a priori as "wrong." I am glad that's not the case here!

[kesher]

Aha. Well, that certainly makes more sense to me!

Thanks for clarifying.

[waysoftheearth]

I use almost the system in my game, just upside down.

The DM secretly decides how tricky the situation is, and therefore "how high" the player needs to roll on the die for success.

The player rolls and then subtract the amount of protection granted by armour worn (if any). Each "plus" of a suit of magical armour is added to the roll -- cancelling some (or all) of the penalty for wearing bulky armour.

I use the same basic system for all kinds of physical tests... like jumping, tumbling etc. But in the case of swimming I double the armour penalty.