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Post by chicagowiz on Jun 9, 2023 7:02:02 GMT -6
(3) In fact, the text doesn't say clerics of Law can't use reversed spells. It says that anti-clerics must use them. In other words, anti-clerics can't heal wounds. Where does it say that anti-clerics MUST cast reverse spells? Can't find it. It's not worded the best, but there's this from V1, pg 34: The implication of the phrase "Those Clerical spells underlined on the table for Cleric Spells have a reverse effect" - it's implication versus absolute. Totally subjective ruling.
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Post by Finarvyn on Jun 9, 2023 9:53:10 GMT -6
IMC clerics can cast the beneficial forms of Anti-Clerics can cast the reversed spell forms but can’t turn undead. Have you considered the reverse of "turn undead" to be "control undead"? Seems like a logical adjustment. I’m now bracing myself for the more opinionated board members here to come by and tell me how wrong I am in this matter of opinion. Hope you don't need to brace yourself too much. I value all sorts of opinions here and am not sure how they can be "wrong" if that's the way you do it in your campaign.
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Post by tombowings on Jun 9, 2023 10:03:41 GMT -6
I think most of the "more opinionated board members" have left the building.
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Post by Piper on Jun 9, 2023 14:40:58 GMT -6
Have you considered the reverse of "turn undead" to be "control undead"? Seems like a logical adjustment. So it does. I’ve gone back-and-forth with it over the years but I haven’t been able to settle on one approach. On the one hand, as you stated here, it’s a logical adjustment in keeping with the spirit of the rules. On the other? The reversed spell forms are more useful offensively and give the anti-cleric a decided edge even without bringing undead into the mix. Hope you don't need to brace yourself too much. I value all sorts of opinions here and am not sure how they can be "wrong" if that's the way you do it in your campaign. As do I. IMO strict parsing of the rules sort of takes away from the spirit of the boxed set to begin with.
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Post by talysman on Jun 9, 2023 16:24:35 GMT -6
I’m now bracing myself for the more opinionated board members here to come by and tell me how wrong I am in this matter of opinion. But that’s how I run it. I ran it by EGG in the early 1980’s and he seemed just fine with this interpretation. I think you'll have a long wait if you're expecting someone to tell you you're doing it wrong. Most of the strong disagreements that I've seen here is mostly about what the rules actually say, which is totally different from how someone chooses to interpret or straight up change the rules to suit their campaign. For example, that quote you give about Clerics of 7th level and greater being either “Law” or “Chaos" I interpret as "there are Neutral clerics, but their max level is 6th." Even though in a previous thread, someone pointed out that text changed from one printing to the next. I like the idea of neutral clerics who see their calling as just another job, but clerics who pick a side in the cosmic war are the only ones able to found an abbey and spread their version of the faith. And in that interpretation, I see anti-clerics as heretics trying to corrupt the church from within, so I would probably allow them to cast healings spells with some chance of failure so they could maintain the illusion that they are true followers of the faith... even though I think the line about underlined clerical spells having a reversed effect for anti-clerics implies that the spells always have a reversed effect for them. I loosen what I see as the strict interpretation to fit my vision.
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Post by Piper on Jun 9, 2023 18:30:59 GMT -6
The first copy of the rules I bought back in the’70s didn’t have the 7th level clause. I didn’t know about the change for a while. Sorry for the confusion.
I used that quote to highlight the “sharp difference” part, which is that which fired my imagination. I didn’t see much of a difference in what was written on the page, so I began to imagine what would make them different. That’s what I came up with.
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Post by Finarvyn on Jun 9, 2023 18:54:08 GMT -6
The first copy of the rules I bought back in the’70s didn’t have the 7th level clause. I didn’t know about the change for a while. Yeah, I didn't know about this for decades. I think someone on this very board eventually pointed it out to me. Huh. My 4th print didn't have it, but later ones did. It would seem strange to me that low-level clerics could use both spells and reverse spells, then at a particular level have to give up half of their spell choices. More logical (to me, at least) that one would choose early on and stick to that choice or anger one's deity.
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Post by Piper on Jun 9, 2023 19:00:38 GMT -6
OTOH if an anti-cleric could further the cause of Chaos by casting a heal spell? The deities of chaos (the referee … me) would have no problem with it. Lawful Clerics are held to a stricter standard in this regard.
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Post by tetramorph on Jun 10, 2023 7:43:07 GMT -6
OTOH if an anti-cleric could further the cause of Chaos by casting a heal spell? The deities of chaos (the referee … me) would have no problem with it. Lawful Clerics are held to a stricter standard in this regard. This is my interpretation. I am glad, then, that you had no qualms with this, playing in my campaign for so many years!
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Post by mgtremaine on Jun 12, 2023 11:50:48 GMT -6
Let see how is sounds at the table...
Your high level worshipper of Random Life goddess..
"Blessed be the Life Giver, Mother of all!" I cast HARM. ;P
-Mike
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