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Post by smubee on Aug 11, 2015 9:43:18 GMT -6
Prime Requisite experience adjustment, additional languages, Missile Fire adjustment, HD adjustment, Loyalty and Reaction tables Ah okay, that's what I had noticed, but there's no like +3 strength if you have 17, or +2 Dex, etc. Okay, thanks for clearing that up!
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Post by scottenkainen on Aug 11, 2015 9:56:03 GMT -6
OD&D isn't a game of bonus stacking. You could always add more game mechanics associated with ability scores if you wanted to (like how many people here use ability score checks), but the bare minimum use of the scores is during character creation, to see how strong your character is, compared to how smart he is, and so on, until you have a sense of what your character is like. Little of that is reflected in actual game mechanics.
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
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Post by smubee on Aug 11, 2015 23:17:47 GMT -6
This is going to be my dumbest question yet..
If all Hit Dice are d6, and all damage is d6.. why is it necessary to have 4 sided dice, 8 sided dice, and 12 sided dice?
Don't get me wrong, I have more than enough dice.. but is there something that I'm missing? I haven't seen any reference to a d4, a d8, or a d12 (I'm only using the first 3 books, not including Greyhawk or Blackmoor)
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flightcommander
Level 6 Magician
"I become drunk as circumstances dictate."
Posts: 370
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Post by flightcommander on Aug 11, 2015 23:59:24 GMT -6
While it's true that much of the "action" depends on d6 and d20 rolls, there are plenty of uses for the other dice — take a look at wandering monsters, castle guardians, treasure tables, monster tables ... lots of opportunities to use the whole set!
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Post by smubee on Aug 12, 2015 0:16:36 GMT -6
While it's true that much of the "action" depends on d6 and d20 rolls, there are plenty of uses for the other dice — take a look at wandering monsters, castle guardians, treasure tables, monster tables ... lots of opportunities to use the whole set! Duh! I completely forgot about the wandering monsters table, etc. So for the players they are only really concerned with the d20 and d6? Also, I'd just like to make sure that I'm doing this right.. When in combat and you roll a d20, say I'm a Fighting-Man, level 1, and I'm going to attack a Minotaur. So I roll the d20, and I get a 13 (from my understanding that is the necessary roll to successfully hit a Minotaur). Say I rolled higher (14), would that hit still actually hit, or is it "Hit this number or lower" meaning if I rolled a 12, I would still hit.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Aug 12, 2015 3:25:40 GMT -6
That's correct smubee; a veteran (1st level fighting-man) requires a throw of 13 or more on a twenty-sided die to successfully hit an AC 6 Minotaur (or any AC 6 heroic/fantastic opponent). Depending on how carefully you want to follow the rules, a veteran adds +1 to his attack roll versus normal Men (or, presumably, any normal opponent) because he has 1 +1 HD and/or the Fighting Capability of 1 Man +1. Therefore a veteran (1st level fighting-man) requires a throw of only 12 or more on a twenty-sided die to successfully hit an AC 6 Man (or any AC 6 normal opponent).
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Post by coffee on Aug 12, 2015 5:56:19 GMT -6
Depending on how carefully you want to follow the rules, a veteran adds +1 to his attack roll versus normal Men (or, presumably, any normal opponent) because he has 1 +1 HD and/or the Fighting Capability of 1 Man +1. Therefore a veteran (1st level fighting-man) requires a throw of only 12 or more on a twenty-sided die to successfully hit an AC 6 Man (or any AC 6 normal opponent). Fighting Capability is described on page 18 as being used with the Chainmail system; the d20 table is the Alternate system and so does not use this +1. (Although you can always house rule it if you choose.)
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Post by waysoftheearth on Aug 12, 2015 6:22:39 GMT -6
Sure, but the example in M&T (p5) explains how the Troll's 6+3 HD gives it a +3 to one of its six attacks vs normal men. Veterans occur as monsters too. Seems to me like the HD adjustment is for the ACS Attack Matrix, and the FC adjustment is for the MtM/FCT matrices. In the case of the veteran, he gets a +1 adjustment vs normals either way
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Post by Red Baron on Aug 12, 2015 8:12:12 GMT -6
This is going to be my dumbest question yet.. If all Hit Dice are d6, and all damage is d6.. why is it necessary to have 4 sided dice, 8 sided dice, and 12 sided dice? Don't get me wrong, I have more than enough dice.. but is there something that I'm missing? I haven't seen any reference to a d4, a d8, or a d12 (I'm only using the first 3 books, not including Greyhawk or Blackmoor) They are used throughout on random tables. A table might have 8 spells (M&M) or 8 monsters (TU&WA) and thus a d8 is handy. There are also probabilities listed where an event might occur 1/4 of the time making a d4 or d8 handy (of course a d20 works here too).
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Post by smubee on Aug 12, 2015 10:58:51 GMT -6
That's correct smubee; a veteran (1st level fighting-man) requires a throw of 13 or more on a twenty-sided die to successfully hit an AC 6 Minotaur (or any AC 6 heroic/fantastic opponent). Depending on how carefully you want to follow the rules, a veteran adds +1 to his attack roll versus normal Men (or, presumably, any normal opponent) because he has 1 +1 HD and/or the Fighting Capability of 1 Man +1. Therefore a veteran (1st level fighting-man) requires a throw of only 12 or more on a twenty-sided die to successfully hit an AC 6 Man (or any AC 6 normal opponent). In reference to the +1 HD, my understanding of that was that it would be 1d6 + 1 to your Hit Points. So if you rolled a 6, you'd instantly get a plus one, make you have 7 total points. I could be totally off on that, but that's what my understanding was.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Aug 12, 2015 15:59:21 GMT -6
Yep, that's true too
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Post by scottenkainen on Aug 12, 2015 18:57:46 GMT -6
I could be totally off on that, but that's what my understanding was. I think the biggest lesson you're learning here is how many ways to interpret OD&D there are. Just pick the interpretation you like best and run with it! ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
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Post by Red Baron on Aug 12, 2015 21:50:34 GMT -6
In reference to the +1 HD, my understanding of that was that it would be 1d6 + 1 to your Hit Points. So if you rolled a 6, you'd instantly get a plus one, make you have 7 total points. You're right about that. It also is applied to the highest attack roll on multiple attacks against normal troops. As a 1st level fighting-man only makes one attack, he adds +1 to his attack if it is made against normal troops.
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Post by smubee on Aug 13, 2015 11:54:41 GMT -6
So the Hit Dice for monsters.. I'm trying to figure this out.
So a Wyvern has 7 Hit Dice. Does that mean that you roll a d6 7 times to find out how many Hit points they have.. OR does that mean that if it hits successfully against a target, you roll 7 d6 to find out how much damage it does?
Or are both correct?
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Post by Mushgnome on Aug 13, 2015 12:55:10 GMT -6
So the Hit Dice for monsters.. I'm trying to figure this out. So a Wyvern has 7 Hit Dice. Does that mean that you roll a d6 7 times to find out how many Hit points they have.. OR does that mean that if it hits successfully against a target, you roll 7 d6 to find out how much damage it does? Or are both correct? A 7HD monster has 7d6 hit points. It inflicts 1d6 damage on a successful hit (unless indicated otherwise in the monster description). But... Many people play that the 7HD monster would get 7 attacks per round vs. normal-types, which would give the potential for 7 attacks of 1d6 each, for 7d6 total damage output potential vs. normal types. To balance this out, many DM's would rule that the 7 attacks are made as a 1HD monster instead of a 7HD monster.
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Post by Red Baron on Aug 13, 2015 13:36:54 GMT -6
So a Wyvern has 7 Hit Dice. Does that mean that you roll a d6 7 times to find out how many Hit points they have Yes .. OR does that mean that if it hits successfully against a target, you roll 7 d6 to find out how much damage it does? Not quite. Against normal troops it may attack 7 times as a normal man. Each attack does 1d6 damage, because that's what a normal man does. Against fantastic opponents, it attacks once as a 7 HD monster, doing damage as indicated in the monster description. In this case, damage is 1d6 and in addition 4/6 of the time a poisonous sting will be delivered forcing a save vs poison or die.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Aug 13, 2015 22:37:56 GMT -6
So a Wyvern has 7 Hit Dice. Does that mean that you roll a d6 7 times to find out how many Hit points they have.. OR does that mean that if it hits successfully against a target, you roll 7 d6 to find out how much damage it does? Or are both correct? My understanding is that in Arneson's original game 7 Hit Dice meant you rolled 7 dice for damage when you scored a hit. In the published 3LBBs it is switched around so that 7 Hit Dice means you roll 7 dice to determine how many hp of damage you can sustain. So both were correct, but not necessarily at the same time. A 7HD monster has 7d6 hit points. It inflicts 1d6 damage on a successful hit (unless indicated otherwise in the monster description). "All attacks which score hits do 1-6 points damage unless otherwise noted." is IMHO applicable primarily to man-sized-ish figures. The 1973 draft says "large and ferocious creatures ... will always roll two hit dice against a player" (note "two hit dice" implying two damage dice). Although the combat section was cut from the 3LBBs before printing, the notion that large creatures deal more damage is echoed throughout the published booklets, so it's reasonable IMHO to presume the principle still applies. What qualifies as "large and ferocious" is up to you, but there's ample precedent in M&T. To balance this out, many DM's would rule that the 7 attacks are made as a 1HD monster instead of a 7HD monster. This is pretty much what M&T p5 implies we should do: "allowing one roll as a man-type for every hit die". EGG later wrote another example (The Strategic Review #1.2) in which a hero has four attacks as a hero vs orcs. So either interpretation has support. Personally, I favor the original rule because it doesn't attempt to combine the advantages of normal and fantastic combat (multiple attacks and improved hit probability, respectively) into a single "super-combat" method. On the otherhand, some folks prefer the combined super-combat.
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Post by Red Baron on Aug 14, 2015 8:30:24 GMT -6
To balance this out, many DM's would rule that the 7 attacks are made as a 1HD monster instead of a 7HD monster. This is pretty much what M&T p5 implies we should do: "allowing one roll as a man-type for every hit die". EGG later wrote another example (The Strategic Review #1.2) in which a hero has four attacks as a hero vs orcs. So either interpretation has support. Personally, I favor the original rule because it doesn't attempt to combine the advantages of normal and fantastic combat (multiple attacks and improved hit probability, respectively) into a single "super-combat" method. On the otherhand, some folks prefer the combined super-combat. This also adds some strategy to use of enchanted weapons. To-git modifiers apply to multiple attacks and fantastic combat, but damage bonuses only apply in fantastic combat. Swords have a damage bonus only against select opponents, if at all. Misc weapons usually have both a to-hit and damage bonus. Thus a +1 axe might be better for killing an ogre, while a +2 sword might be better for killing bandits.
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Post by smubee on Aug 20, 2015 22:58:53 GMT -6
Prepping for my session.. Almost done everything.
Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, or maybe my mind has just gone. Whereabouts in the three booklets do I find a table for experience points?
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Post by coffee on Aug 21, 2015 7:28:08 GMT -6
Prepping for my session.. Almost done everything. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, or maybe my mind has just gone. Whereabouts in the three booklets do I find a table for experience points? Flippant answer: You don't. Actual answer: Experience awards are discussed on M&M page 18, but there is no table. You simply award 100 xp per hit die of monster defeated, and 1 xp per gp of treasure recovered. The 100 xp/hit die is not explicitly stated, but is obvious from the example. (It is explicitly stated in Greyhawk when this system is scrapped and a replacement one offered.) Hope your session goes well! Remember to focus on having a good time, and don't obsess over the rules.
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Post by smubee on Aug 21, 2015 8:30:05 GMT -6
Prepping for my session.. Almost done everything. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, or maybe my mind has just gone. Whereabouts in the three booklets do I find a table for experience points? Flippant answer: You don't. Actual answer: Experience awards are discussed on M&M page 18, but there is no table. You simply award 100 xp per hit die of monster defeated, and 1 xp per gp of treasure recovered. The 100 xp/hit die is not explicitly stated, but is obvious from the example. (It is explicitly stated in Greyhawk when this system is scrapped and a replacement one offered.) Hope your session goes well! Remember to focus on having a good time, and don't obsess over the rules. Thanks so much! It's like searching for treasure trying to find out some of the rules.
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Post by Red Baron on Aug 21, 2015 10:30:12 GMT -6
Don't forget to modify experience by a fraction proportional to the dungeon level vs character level. Someone (I think it was Gronan) said that the 100 xp/ level applies only to poisonous, regenerating, paralyzing, petrifying, etc monsters. The 100 xp / HD in the example is because the monster is troll. You wouldn't recieve 100 xp/ HD against orcs or bears, experience would only be recieved for treasure carried.
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Post by Stormcrow on Aug 21, 2015 11:17:38 GMT -6
100 XP per monster level is a false extrapolation that Gygax never intended. Before Greyhawk you were supposed to pull monster experience awards out of your butt based on your experience as a judge. You got 1 XP per 1 GP, adjusted for relative difficulty, but monster XP was made up by the judge. In the example given in the book, he happens to give 700 XP for defeating one particular 7th level monster, but not because the monster was 7th level.
A lot of people will swear that 100 XP per monster level is God's Own Truth, but they're jumping to the wrong conclusion.
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Post by Falconer on Aug 22, 2015 12:14:27 GMT -6
Yeah, I would advise that you use the table given in Greyhawk, unless you know what you’re doing and have a specific reason to want to tinker with it.
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Post by tetramorph on Aug 22, 2015 15:31:18 GMT -6
Recent posts are absolutely correct. I've played in austinjimm's 0e campaign for a couple of years now. He does the 100XP per HD (roughly) thing and never worries about dungeon lvl, etc. When I ref its exactly 100XP per HD, +100 for each bonus, special ability, etc. I never award less than 100XP, even for lower HD creatures. I never worry about dividing by dungeon lvl, PC lvl, etc. I just total the HD, etc. X100 and the g.p. (at 1:1) then I divide by number of PCs. If there are henchmen they get ½, if there are hirelings they get ¼ XP. So let's say there is a party of 4 with 1 henchman and two hirelings. I would divide by 20. the hirelings would get that number. I would times by 2. The single henchman would get that number. I would times by 2 again and that would be the number for the PCs. It is fast and easy. No one complains. It moves swiftly for me too. It is not BTB. So do it by the book like the previous posts explain. Then see if you want to do it differently if that seems too much for you. Good luck, and give us a play report!
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Post by vladtolenkov on Sept 19, 2015 22:39:26 GMT -6
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