Post by aher on Oct 9, 2012 18:45:16 GMT -6
On page 9 of Volume I, in the section on Character Alignment, Including Various Monsters and Creatures: it lists orcs as either neutral or chaotic.
In Chainmail (page 30) we read, "orcs are nothing but overgrown goblins." But goblins are never neutral in Volume I. Later, in the AD&D MM (1978), orcs are always lawful evil. But in Holmes (also 1978) orcs are always chaotic evil. So there's quite a divergence in AD&D away from Basic D&D in terms of orc alignment. Orcs are spread all over the Law-Chaos alignment axis in just 4 years.
Where did these different opinions about orc alignment come from?
Has anyone used neutral orcs in their campaign? Has anyone ever had a neutral characater reincarnated (p. 30) as an orc?
Are there any examples from fantasy literature of neutral orcs? Here's what I've got:
There's an argument for the existence of neutral orcs based on a sentence in Tolkien's Silmarillion during the "War of the Last Alliance":
The implication is not all orcs were chaotic -- at least some orcs were either neutral or even possibly lawful. This thread at DF includes an argument that in his seminal Beowulf lecture, Tolkien divides the world into three alignments
In Greek mythology, Horkos (from ὅρκος, "oath") personifies the curse that will be inflicted on any person who swears a false oath. Since he punishes oath breakers, one suspects Horkus is lawful. But perhaps he is a mechanical force of nature, and therefore neutral.
In William Blake's 1793 poem, America A Prophecy, Orc is a Promethean figure, the embodiment of creative passion and energy, and stands opposed to Urizen, the embodiment of tradition. Orc is a rebel. He may be a symbol for America (and Urizen a symbol of England). Or he may be a symbol of a Gnostic conception of Christ (and Urizen a symbol of the Demiurge). Orc is possibly an anagram of the word cor (heart). He sometimes takes the form of a whale (orca), a sea dragon, the sepent in the Garden of Eden. In his poem Vala, Orc represents the divided aspects of the soul, a twofold essence that is capable of good and evil. So it's arguable that Blake's Orc is neutral.
Now I'm not arguing that Gary or anybody was familiar with the Silmarilion, the Beowulf lecture, Blake's poetry, or anything like that.
I'm merely trying to grapple with the idea of neutral orcs, and find a model I can use to put them into play effectively in my campaign.
In Chainmail (page 30) we read, "orcs are nothing but overgrown goblins." But goblins are never neutral in Volume I. Later, in the AD&D MM (1978), orcs are always lawful evil. But in Holmes (also 1978) orcs are always chaotic evil. So there's quite a divergence in AD&D away from Basic D&D in terms of orc alignment. Orcs are spread all over the Law-Chaos alignment axis in just 4 years.
Where did these different opinions about orc alignment come from?
Has anyone used neutral orcs in their campaign? Has anyone ever had a neutral characater reincarnated (p. 30) as an orc?
Are there any examples from fantasy literature of neutral orcs? Here's what I've got:
There's an argument for the existence of neutral orcs based on a sentence in Tolkien's Silmarillion during the "War of the Last Alliance":
All living things were divided in that day, and some of every kind, even of beasts and birds, were found in either host, save the Elves only. They alone were undivided and followed Gil-galad.
The implication is not all orcs were chaotic -- at least some orcs were either neutral or even possibly lawful. This thread at DF includes an argument that in his seminal Beowulf lecture, Tolkien divides the world into three alignments
- lawful = christian
- neutral = pagan or heathen
- chaotic = monstrous or satanic
In Greek mythology, Horkos (from ὅρκος, "oath") personifies the curse that will be inflicted on any person who swears a false oath. Since he punishes oath breakers, one suspects Horkus is lawful. But perhaps he is a mechanical force of nature, and therefore neutral.
In William Blake's 1793 poem, America A Prophecy, Orc is a Promethean figure, the embodiment of creative passion and energy, and stands opposed to Urizen, the embodiment of tradition. Orc is a rebel. He may be a symbol for America (and Urizen a symbol of England). Or he may be a symbol of a Gnostic conception of Christ (and Urizen a symbol of the Demiurge). Orc is possibly an anagram of the word cor (heart). He sometimes takes the form of a whale (orca), a sea dragon, the sepent in the Garden of Eden. In his poem Vala, Orc represents the divided aspects of the soul, a twofold essence that is capable of good and evil. So it's arguable that Blake's Orc is neutral.
Now I'm not arguing that Gary or anybody was familiar with the Silmarilion, the Beowulf lecture, Blake's poetry, or anything like that.
I'm merely trying to grapple with the idea of neutral orcs, and find a model I can use to put them into play effectively in my campaign.
