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Post by chgowiz on Apr 27, 2009 15:27:20 GMT -6
You know, this is now bugging me enough that I have to ask.
In Basic Equipment Costs, pg 14:
Iron Rations (for dungeon expeditions) 1 person/1 week
vs.
Standard Rations for 1 person/1 week.
Why?
I can't find anything useful for that distinction later on. I can only assume that perhaps regular food was somehow affected by the dungeon air/environment? It's a curious thing. Funny thing is, I can't find anything on the boards here about it. I've been asked about this at my games and I don't have a good reason.
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Post by chgowiz on Apr 27, 2009 15:41:23 GMT -6
I love it when I answer my own questions 5 minutes after I post it on a forum somewhere. From: www.knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=6864#6864TFoster: The above is correct, and is probably the primary difference in AD&D, but in OD&D (where encumbrance for miscellaneous gear isn't itemized) the key to the difference is in the description: "iron rations (for dungeon expeditions)" (Vol. I, p. 14). To me this means that if you're traveling overland carrying standard rations is fine, but if you're planning to carry food into the dungeon it has to be iron rations (presumably because the dank dungeon atmosphere causes standard rations to spoil). |
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Post by snorri on Apr 27, 2009 15:41:53 GMT -6
If you hold a non-iron ration in your hand and you're surprised by a monster, you got 25% chances to drop it [U&W, p. 12] and waste your lunch. Isn't it a good reason? Then, you're hungry and you beginto loose life levels, as stated here: gamebits.gameroom.com/RULES/Outdoor_Survival_Rules.htmlyes! |
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Post by kesher on Apr 27, 2009 18:13:33 GMT -6
Can you distract rust monsters with iron rations?
(okay, I have to credit that to coffee---the person, not the beverage...)
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 27, 2009 18:23:55 GMT -6
Rust monsters get distracted, yes.
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on Apr 27, 2009 18:41:04 GMT -6
Well, the term "Iron Ration", as far as I can tell, is a literal translation of the German term "Eiserne Portion" (which goes back at least as far as WWI): a package of one day's worth of canned meat, tinned vegetables, and hardtack. It was an emergency ration; soldiers on the front lines carried between one and three days of this in their packs, and were forbidden to break into it except on orders from an officer. Their normal rations consisted of things like stews, soups, and bread, delivered by runners from field kitchens back behind the support trenches.
In D&D terms, "iron rations" would be dried meat, hard tack, and perhaps some hard cheese, dried beans/peas, dried fruit or vegetables (maybe); if it were kept dry and away from vermin -perhaps well wrapped in an oilskin*- it could last for months. "Standard rations" would be things like regular bread, fresh or smoked meats, sausage, cheese, fresh or pickled vegetables... things that could be foraged, or purchased from farmers, bakers, and taverns along the way. These would probably not last more than a week or two while on the road, so I would rule that if a party were heading into a dungeon, the first week could be 'standard' rations, but everything after that would have to be iron rations.
* - Oilskin: for those who don't know, "oilskin" is a waterproof cloth made from tightly-woven fabric (usually linen), soaked in linseed oil and allowed to dry. The linseed oil oxidizes, creating a heavy, flexible, waterproof material. It is a light amber color (unless a dyed canvas is used, or a pigment is mixed into the oil). It is stiff when cold, gummy when hot (until it picks up a layer of dust, which it does quite quickly), and smells distinctly of linseed oil (which is the basis for oil paint...same principle, really.)
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Post by apeloverage on Apr 27, 2009 22:22:01 GMT -6
In the Rules Cyclopedia it specifically says that normal rations will spoil overnight in a dungeon.
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Post by apeloverage on Apr 28, 2009 2:13:26 GMT -6
"And the advantage of dog's milk is it tastes exactly the same when it's gone off as when it's fresh."
Red Dwarf.
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Post by chgowiz on Apr 28, 2009 7:36:39 GMT -6
My original question was specifically of OD&D, which doesn't have the detail or specificity that AD&D or RC has. It's interesting how it's just three words "for dungeon expeditions" that can give someone a wide latitude - as seen in following editions. I agree with Foster's (and ultimately the RC) interpretation - after some period of time, standard rations go bad in a dungeon. snorri, I would assume the elf would eat the lunch before facing the monsters.  |
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on Apr 29, 2009 0:20:52 GMT -6
snorri, I would assume the elf would eat the lunch before facing the monsters. I second that motion - Somehow, I'd think that I'd be less likely to drop the last fresh apple than I would a piece of mutton-jerky...when I'd been eating nothing but mutton jerky for the last two weeks.  (Maybe that is the reason for spikes on top of helmets - to hold your food when suddenly attacked while eating. ;D ) As for standard rations going bad after one day...that seems a bit excessive, unless you wanted to open up that old thread about dungeons being a 'mythic underworld.' I mean, in the days before refrigeration, one kept food like fruits and vegetables edible by storing them in a "root cellar" (Of course, you had to keep a constant eye out for decay - the source of the old saying "One bad apple can ruin the whole barrel.") |
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Post by chgowiz on Apr 29, 2009 9:33:58 GMT -6
unless you wanted to open up that old thread about dungeons being a 'mythic underworld.' That's exactly what I'll be doing. The dungeons are a different place, full of magic, mystery and death. It stands to reason that "standard" food would go bad there, in my campaigns. |
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Post by Lord Kilgore on Apr 29, 2009 11:26:20 GMT -6
unless you wanted to open up that old thread about dungeons being a 'mythic underworld.' That's exactly what I'll be doing. The dungeons are a different place, full of magic, mystery and death. It stands to reason that "standard" food would go bad there, in my campaigns. Agreed. I'm not so sure about food spoiling over just one night, but the dungeon sure ain't just a hole in the ground with some nastys in it. It's a different world. FWIW, I don't believe I was familiar with the one-night spoilage rule for standard rations. Good thread. |
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Post by thorswulf on May 25, 2009 23:34:37 GMT -6
I pretty much assume Iron rations are preserved food, and standard rations are less travel/abuse resistant. Lets face it: When you are up to your armpits in blood, gore, ichor, slimes, spoiled water, poison, and less savory (and better left undiscussed) nastiness of dungeons how could ANY standard rations survive?
Oh by the way, hardtack gets weevils bad, just read any naval fiction novel. Thank goodness for grog!
Seriously, real food spoils fairly easily, and if we ate what our ancestors did, we'd probably die from food poisoning. Here's another cheery thought: Standard rations can get kill you if they get stuff like ecoli, or make you ahllucinate, then die like ergot. Don't eat bad rye flour! You drink Rye of course.... how else are you supposed to stay healthy?
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jjarvis
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 278
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Post by jjarvis on Jun 2, 2009 10:17:44 GMT -6
I've gone with iron rations are ready to eat and durable. Standard rations require some prep time and are ruined if dunked in water. A meal break with iron rations is a regular 10 minute turn but it takes an hour to prepare and eat a standard ration meal.
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Post by Finarvyn on Jun 2, 2009 21:04:29 GMT -6
Our ruling on this is as follows:
1. It takes about a half week to go from town to the dungeon, about a half week to return. (This assumes I don't have a to-scale map to work with.) So, I make each character buy a week of standard rations for the journey.
2. Underground you need to have something that won't spoil if you fall into an underground river, get acid spilled on you, or whatever. So, I make each character buy a week of iron rations for while in the dungeon.
If I'm running a wilderness campaign, I sometimes take the time to calculate days. On the other hand, the Rangers always want to hunt for food along the way so maybe it evens out. A week's worth of food per overland expedition is probably a good enough number in my campaigns.
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heartless
Level 1 Medium
Kill monsters, take the treasure
Posts: 12
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Post by heartless on Apr 14, 2011 7:48:56 GMT -6
This a great site. I was wondering what were Iron Rations we all need in an AD&D adventure and people have talked about it already. So here some more input. Here is a laugh with Iron Rations for the hungry adventurer. www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20010322a1 |
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heartless
Level 1 Medium
Kill monsters, take the treasure
Posts: 12
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Post by heartless on Apr 14, 2011 7:51:34 GMT -6
In real life Iron Rations were "(Military) emergency food supplies, esp for military personnel in action".
Background:
In World War I three types of rations came into usage by the American forces: the Reserve ration, the Trench ration, and the Emergency ration (also known as the Iron ration).
[edit] "Iron Ration" (1907–1922)
The first attempt to make an individual ration for issue to soldiers in the field was the "iron ration", first introduced in 1907. It consisted of three 3-ounce cakes (made from a concoction of beef bouillon powder and parched and cooked wheat), three 1-ounce bars of sweetened chocolate, and packets of salt and pepper that was issued in a sealed tin packet that weighed one pound. It was designed for emergency use when the troops were unable to be supplied with food. It was later discontinued by the adoption of the "Reserve Ration".
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Post by coffee on Apr 14, 2011 8:12:45 GMT -6
This a great site. I was wondering what were Iron Rations we all need in an AD&D adventure and people have talked about it already. So here some more input. Here is a laugh with Iron Rations for the hungry adventurer. www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20010322a1Well, that's a dwarf for you! Thanks for the link. |
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Post by howandwhy99 on Apr 15, 2011 4:34:22 GMT -6
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_rationI'd say the difference between A & B rations, but it's already been more than answered. Define spoilage for food stuffs and be done with it. The link above simply covers more about what the iron ration was and where the reference comes from.
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