Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 696 Location: Wichita, Kansas, USA Karma: 27
Re: Lake Geneva Gaming Group? « Reply #2 on Jul 19, 2010, 11:27pm »
Rob's games were distinct from Gary's though, and seem to have had folks who never played in Greyhawk, or who only did so rarely. It may be worth going through the 1976-1985 module credits, and checking the lists of playtesters, too, Havard, and then comparing them to the listed players from BC and LR. Might open a few more research nooks to explore....
Re: Lake Geneva Gaming Group? « Reply #3 on Jul 20, 2010, 10:55am »
Actaually, that is a grand error grodog. They were not distinct from in including people who never played in Greyhawk Castle under either EGG or Myself; I just included others as I was continuing to DM on the main and past the time EGG really wasn't doing so anymore, as he was devoted to designing and bringing TSR more into focus as its President. The campaign evolved with the introduction of new players, and I list these alongside the previous ones, as well. Cheers! (and lose one EXALT!)
Re: Lake Geneva Gaming Group? « Reply #4 on Jul 20, 2010, 11:05am »
"Might open a few more research nooks to explore...."
Have to say this... Why do some "researchers" always reflect in the 2nd person removed when the primary contextual evidence is available in raw form and in person (or an electronically worded simulacrum of such at least), namely, Me? Just ask.
"Might open a few more research nooks to explore...."
Have to say this... Why do some "researchers" always reflect in the 2nd person removed when the primary contextual evidence is available in raw form and in person (or an electronically worded simulacrum of such at least), namely, Me? Just ask.
Well okay , One thing I've been wondering, and have seen a few others speculate about is those "16 pages of notes" Dave mailed to Gary way back when. I imagine (please correct me if I'm wrong) you've already mentioned about as much as you remember of the content of them and any letters that may have followed, but I wonder if you know the fate of them. I've long assumed they found thier way into the trash at some point, but do you think there is a chance those notes or later correspondence between Dave and Gary as the game was in development, might still exist?
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Actaually, that is a grand error grodog. [snip] I just included others as I was continuing to DM on the main and past the time EGG really wasn't doing so anymore, as he was devoted to designing and bringing TSR more into focus as its President.
I stand corrected, and certainly not for the first time. Thanks for setting me straight, Rob
Have to say this... Why do some "researchers" always reflect in the 2nd person removed when the primary contextual evidence is available in raw form and in person (or an electronically worded simulacrum of such at least), namely, Me? Just ask.
Re: Lake Geneva Gaming Group? « Reply #8 on Jul 21, 2010, 12:55am »
To answer the question of the original typed notes sent to EGG and which I had a chance to read then, I do not know if EGG's estate still holds them or not; nor do I know if Arneson's estate (as administered by his daughter) holds a copy or copies. A good person to ask this of in the latter case (outside of contacting Dave's estate) MIGHT be David Wesley, as well, or some of the original gamers in Dave's group (Swenson, Gaylord, Snider, etc.). I know nothing beyond this.
A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day! —J.R.R. Tolkien
Finarvyn Administrator Dungeon Master member is offline
Joined: Jun 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 4,676 Location: Near Chicago Karma: 178
Re: Lake Geneva Gaming Group? « Reply #10 on Jul 21, 2010, 6:10am »
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Re: Lake Geneva Gaming Group? « Reply #12 on Jul 21, 2010, 8:18am »
Philip: I have noted this at the LOTGD as well: EGG handed me the notes with a caveat, something akin to a warning. I read through them, in some spots struggled to do so, as they were not contiguous. They seemed loose condensations of what his group was using. There were formulas as I had noted at GENCON 2 or 3 when Strategos-N was being played (judge: Dave Wesley) and as I watched for some time with great interest then as I loved the period. I believe this is the first game at Gencon to use a computer which was set up next to the table and was used specifically for crunching such calculations. EGG came in at several points to mark my progress and interjected at one point that the whole had to be revised to be understood (I believe that he had made his decision right there and then to rewrite, which I might add in all of the days I had been privvy to playtests and their discussions I had never noted EGG do, and so forthrightly). I came away with virtually no understanding of a cohesiveness or structure to it at all, but it obviously made sense to Dave as he was judging it. It lacked proper examples and other guides, were partials, stream of conscious and IMO did never explain fully what we had experienced as 4 players with David Megarry in November 1972. Then again, David was using a certain form as understood, as most designers can do, and I don't believe that he had ever expected the stuff to see the light of day in print. That was my total take and there is very little else I can add to expand the matter beyond this. Asking Dave Wesley abut the integration of those formulas might be another track to pursue in the matter.
Joined: Jun 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 479 Location: Norway, Europe Karma: 8
Re: Lake Geneva Gaming Group? « Reply #13 on Jul 21, 2010, 8:48am »
Thanks for sharing this Rob! That explains some of the statements by mr Kask about the "quality" of Arneson's work. Previously, I had assumed that Kask simply failed to understand Arneson's style of gaming rather than the rules themselves.
You mention a game DMed by David Megarry. Did Megarry DM Blackmoor? Do you rememeber any details of what the game entailed? I am mainly interested in setting/locations, characters, plots etc...
Re: Lake Geneva Gaming Group? « Reply #14 on Jul 21, 2010, 9:23am »
Thanks Havard. Nope. Read in context: "4 players with David Megarry". I am not going to criticize you too abhorrently (as I have seen others elsewhere making even greater/grosser leaps of logic and mistakes), but the assumption you make is by extracting some understood out of its context, as I said "with." That is: Megarry was a player, too--which is the only inference, as there is no specific mention to the contrary otherwise (One of my greatest concerns and peeves with true research, btw, and in that matter a big nod to David Witts for, IMO, maintaining the highest standards in that regard). Dave Arneson was the judge, and the other players were: EGG, Terry Kuntz, Ernie Gygax and myself. Megarry was the de facto leader as he understood the campaign area and rules and so he was our overall integration point in the adventure which took place on EGG's dining table. This has been recounted several times elsewhere on the net and in expanded form in an upcoming work of mine. Cheers!
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