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Post by Finarvyn on Jun 25, 2007 8:33:35 GMT -6
I think we all know that in Supplement I Greyhawk they added the concept of "Exceptional Strength" for fighters. I have mixed feelings about this because it encourages stat inflation. If straight 3d6 are rolled, there are 6*6*6=216 possible options, which leads to a 0.5% chance of an 18 coming up fro each roll. (This can be higher with a "4d6 drop one" or other rolling system, but the original method was straight 3d6.) With only 1 in 200 characters even being eligible to make use of the "exceptional strength" rule (or 1 in 33 if you can arrange stats in whatever order you want) I wonder why they bothered with the rule at all. Having said that, I thought that it was interesting that rules for "exceptional dexterity" were published in the Strategic Review back in 1975. Here's what they did: | Dexterity Score | Open locks / Remove traps | Climb Sheer Walls (base 13% falling) | Pickpocket, Move Silent, Hide in Shadow | | 3-4 | -10% | +12% | -5 % | | 5-6 | - 5% | + 6% | normal | | 7-9 | normal | normal | normal | | 10-12 | normal | normal | normal | | 13-15 | +10% | - 1 % | normal | | 16 | +10% | - 1 % | + 5% | | 17 | +15% | - 2 % | +10% | | 18* | +20% | - 3 % | +15% | | 01-50 | +20% | - 3 % | +15% | | 51-75 | +25% | - 4 % | +15% | | 76-90 | +25% | - 4 % | +20% | | 91-99 | +25% | - 4 % | +25% | | 00 | +30% | - 5 % | +30% |
*Extraordinary (Roll if natural 18) |
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Post by foster1941 on Jun 25, 2007 13:57:02 GMT -6
Wow, that must be from either TSR #4 or #7 (the two I don't have) because I've never seen that before. I don't think I'd use it in my game (since I want to de-emphasize high stats, rather than emphasizing them even more) but I can see that in a game where this was used that it could alleviate a lot of the complaints about low level thieves' suckiness. Was this article by Gygax or someone else (or doesn't it say)?
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Post by crimhthanthegreat on Jun 25, 2007 20:44:06 GMT -6
It is from Issue No. 7 (April 1976) at the bottom of page 19. It is about the size of two small paragraphs and it titled: Thief Bonuses for Dexterity by David Klempa.
Edited to correct typo.
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Post by crimhthanthegreat on Jun 25, 2007 20:52:30 GMT -6
I think we all know that in Supplement I Greyhawk they added the concept of "Exceptional Strength" for fighters. I have mixed feelings about this because it encourages stat inflation. We use the Exceptional Strength and Exceptional Dexterity in one of our OD&D campaigns due entirely to it being extremely deadly and to it being the campaign were we can indulge our desire to be Conan (or the equivalent). In that campaign we depart from the roll 3d6 in order, roll 6 times once and play what you get that we use elsewhere and use 4d6 drop the lowest do this 8 times and keep the best 6 and arrange in order. |
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 13, 2008 12:36:40 GMT -6
I thought that it was interesting that rules for "exceptional dexterity" were published in the Strategic Review back in 1975. A little thread necro action here. I was re-reading old Dragon PDFs today and found a second reference to exceptional dexterity, one which I didn't remember ever seeing. Back in Dragon #3 page 30 (1976) is a tiny article (actually just a table) called "Combat Modifications for Dexterity" by Steve Cline. This article (table) lists melee, missle, damage, and defensive adjustments for Dexterity and it also includes numbers through exceptional 18(00) Dex. As far as I know, Strength and Dexterity are the only two attributes given "official" exceptional status. Have I missed any? |
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Post by Falconer on Apr 13, 2008 18:51:40 GMT -6
I think the percentile roll to determine Exceptional Strength is just a hell of a lot of fun. It’s the sort of quirky rule that I love, that really makes the game for me. I don’t use the pluses for attack or damage given in that table (and I don’t typically bother with encumbrance, either), but otherwise I think that table is cool just for Exceptional Strength and Open Doors (which can be used for a great many things).
I have never had Exceptional Anything Else, though. Let’s face it: they just don’t exist in the literature. You have Heracleses and Sampsons and Conans. Superhuman Intellects are the domain of Sci-Fi villains (fantasy villains are less intelligent but more ambitious/unscrupulous/willing allies of the forbidden/unholy). Dexterity (Mercurial Speed) and Charisma (the beauty of Lúthien) might have a case, but even those are a stretch, and applicable generally only to those who DO have divine blood (and therefore might as well be 19s and 20s). Regards.
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busman
Level 6 Magician
Playing OD&D, once again. Since 2008!
Posts: 448
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Post by busman on Apr 13, 2008 18:58:51 GMT -6
Here ya go Fin:
Dexterity Opn/Rem Climb Pick/Silent/Hide
--------- ------- ----- ----------
3-4 -10% 12% -5%
5-6 -5% +6% normal
7-9 normal normal normal
10-12 normal normal normal
13-15 10% -1% normal
16 10% -1% +5%
17 15% -2% +10%
18* 20% -3% +15%
18(01-50) 20% -3% +15%
18(51-75) 25% -4% +15%
18(76-90) 25% -4% +20%
18(91-99) 25% -4% +25%
18(00) 30% -5% +30%
Edit: Made the columns red. What can I say I had some time while my machine building. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2008 23:04:40 GMT -6
Just one of the many previews of AD&D. Unfortunately, Gygax and company did not introduce the standard 4d6, drop lowest, in reference form until the Dungeon Master's Guide. It is virtually certain that Gygax and friends had incorporated alternative statistic generating methods into their own games.
The odds of obtaining 18/00 strength is 1/216,000 on a standard 3d6 die roll. You have a better chance of drawing a Royal Flush in 5 Card Draw Poker.
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Post by murquhart72 on Apr 14, 2008 15:09:35 GMT -6
I noticed interesting wording from Men & Magic and Greyhawk: "Exceptional" refers to any score over 12 (esp. those over 14). The percentile scored ability was known as "Extraordinary". It seems the latter became simply Exceptional with the appearance of AD&D's Player's Handbook.
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Post by coffee on Apr 14, 2008 15:33:05 GMT -6
Unfortunately, Gygax and company did not introduce the standard 4d6, drop lowest, in reference form until the Dungeon Master's Guide. Although a version of it appeared earlier I remember an early issue of The Dragon (either #1 or #3; I had photocopies of those two issues from a friend who played back in the day.) Anyway, this issue had a table of dice one would roll for each stat, by race. Dwarves rolled 4d6 for Strength, Hobbits 4d6 for Dexterity, etc. (Perhaps someone with a Dragon Magazine Archive can retrieve this table for us.) What made me remember it was that this friend of mine told me, with a perfectly straight face, that in "old" D&D, Dwarves could have up to a 24 Strength. (He had missed the note on the table that 18 was still the maximum.) It was a "what we did before we knew what we were doing" kind of thing. |
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Post by James Maliszewski on Apr 18, 2008 14:56:36 GMT -6
Just one of the many previews of AD&D. Unfortunately, Gygax and company did not introduce the standard 4d6, drop lowest, in reference form until the Dungeon Master's Guide. It is virtually certain that Gygax and friends had incorporated alternative statistic generating methods into their own games. What I find very fascinating is that, in AD&D, although straight 3d6 is the default way to roll up stats by implication, the only methods ever actually described (in the DMG) are quite different, from 4d6, drop the lowest to 3d6 six times per stat and take the highest. |
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Post by geoffrey on Apr 18, 2008 15:44:56 GMT -6
The odds of obtaining 18/00 strength is 1/216,000 on a standard 3d6 die roll. You have a better chance of drawing a Royal Flush in 5 Card Draw Poker. I think the odds are 1 in 21,600. 6 times 6 times 6 times 100 equals 21,600. Still long odds!  |
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