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Post by Zulgyan on Apr 1, 2009 19:14:24 GMT -6
I wonder how many wierd and strange but fun things could happen if you take all OD&D rules literary.
For example, Protection from Evil says:
"This spell hedges the conjurer round with a magic circle to keep out attacks from enchanted monsters".
So, for example, if you are fighting a magic-user and his 5 hired orcs, if he casts Haste on the orcs and you have Protection from evil cast on you, now the orcs can't attack you!
What other examples can you find?
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Post by coffee on Apr 1, 2009 20:36:25 GMT -6
For starters, there's the "% Liar" on the Monster Reference table...
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Post by snorri on Apr 1, 2009 20:38:34 GMT -6
Among those with intrigates me, the Giant nature of some creatures. Have a look in Undewrold & Wilderness, p. 18:
Giant types:
Kobolds
Goblins
Orcs
Hobgoblins
Gnolls
Ogres
Trolls
Giants
Gnomes
Dwarves
Elves
Ents
I guess it has some roots in Norse mythology, but provides a lot of interesting cultural clues on the od&d world.
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Post by snorri on Apr 3, 2009 4:09:22 GMT -6
Acoording to the same, p. 19, the Balrog is a sub-specie of Dragon. I like that!
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Post by Random on Apr 3, 2009 23:45:35 GMT -6
Knock: A spell which opens secret doors, held portals, doors locked by magic,
barred or otherwise secured gates, etc. Range: 6".
That could be taken to mean all such doors and portals within range are opened with a single casting.
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Post by Zulgyan on Apr 3, 2009 23:54:41 GMT -6
I consider a Knock spell open ALL DOORS in the area. Including secret doors that have not yet been found.
Otherwise, players were never choosing this spell. Now it seems more in balance with the rest of the choices.
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Post by snorri on Apr 4, 2009 3:29:22 GMT -6
'Read magic' seems to be abble to analyse magic items, as it reveal their passwords. I thing ths has allready been discussed here.
Note that protection from evil serves as an armor "adding a + 1 to all saving throws and taking a — 1 from hit dice of evil opponents."
Litteraly, I read that:
- opponent add +1 to his saving throws, making him more vulnerable to spells (ie. if he must roll a 15 or more, it turns to 16 or more).
- As Hit dice definition is very ambiguous, I could read he really loose 1HD rather than -1 to hit. So, according to the way I deal with HD, I can roll 1d6 to lower his Hit points while attacking the spell-caster, or reroll all its hit dices with one less.
Question: Does Protection from evil stun creatures with 1Hit Dice or less? It could be fun!
[and even if not, as usual, the 2d6 system makes the modifiers far much more efficients]
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Post by Zulgyan on Apr 4, 2009 4:07:09 GMT -6
A literal interpretation of "taking a — 1 from hit dice of evil opponents" would mean that all 1HD creatures that enter the spell area would be reduced to 0 HD and therefore drop stone dead.
All other creatures would lose 1 HD, meaning worser attacks, worser saves and 1d6 "drain damage".
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Post by ragnorakk on Apr 4, 2009 15:09:05 GMT -6
Ha! That's cool! OD&D uses 'hit dice' in ways that are very open to interpretation
(as you guys know). I like the idea of Protection from Evil actually harming the
evil-dudes and making them less effective in combat in general (while in the area
of effect) instead of just against the target of the spell. That's how I've always
imagined it anyway...
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Post by dwayanu on Apr 4, 2009 15:51:27 GMT -6
Different uses of the word "turn" become evident when one compares some OD&D text with the equivalent in later versions that employ the phrase "melee round".
An unusual approach that I have found interesting is to treat the durations of magical effects in terms of the time scale dictated by current activity (whether exploration or combat).
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Post by dwayanu on Apr 4, 2009 16:14:11 GMT -6
I make pretty liberal provisions for PFE: "When in doubt, whip it out" is good advice for players in my OD&D games.
Having knock unlock all portals in range could pose interesting problems. "We'd like to get door A open, but would rather not let the monsters through door B!"
Lately, my players seem to consider sleep the only spell worth taking into the dungeon. Maybe I should edit and print out the "advice to a 1st level MU" I posted here some time ago.
I've thought of treating read magic as giving information about enchantments besides those on scrolls, and also of folding it together with read languages as a single spell.
Got a bit off topic there, I'm afraid! I guess the "literalism" aspect touches on the broader topic of how the OD&D books can inspire different approaches to the game than have become taken for granted.
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Post by snorri on Apr 4, 2009 16:49:45 GMT -6
I read again the "Hold person" description, and - I think i allready read it somewhre, probably here - nothing at all suggest a paralysis. Rather, a domination: it's linked to charm person and expends it effects on several. As far as I can see, the english word for hold could suggest domination as well.
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Post by Zulgyan on Apr 4, 2009 16:50:30 GMT -6
Good Point. But magic should be dangerous and spells should not always be the right tool for the right job! It makes it feel more Vancian this way!
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Post by coffee on Apr 4, 2009 22:38:26 GMT -6
A literal interpretation of " taking a — 1 from hit dice of evil opponents" would mean that all 1HD creatures that enter the spell area would be reduced to 0 HD and therefore drop stone dead. All other creatures would lose 1 HD, meaning worser attacks, worser saves and 1d6 "drain damage". But you could also interpret this a literally a -1 to each die. Thus a 10 HD creature would immediately lose 10 hp when fighting someone who has cast PFE. But NOT against others! That would really mess with your players' heads. |
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Post by Lord Kilgore on Apr 5, 2009 9:56:31 GMT -6
But you could also interpret this a literally a -1 to each die. Thus a 10 HD creature would immediately lose 10 hp when fighting someone who has cast PFE. But NOT against others! That would really mess with your players' heads. That is twisted genius! |
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Post by Random on Apr 5, 2009 13:23:20 GMT -6
Lately, my players seem to consider sleep the only spell worth taking into the dungeon. Maybe I should edit and print out the "advice to a 1st level MU" I posted here some time ago. From a literal reading of the Sleep spell, it must affect the maximum number of creatures it can within range, determined at random, meaning that it has fair chances of sleeping the magic-user and his friends. Talk about balancing a powerful spell! |
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Post by snorri on Apr 5, 2009 16:43:01 GMT -6
The protection from evil, 10' radius should be classed Weapon of mass destruction now!
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Post by snorri on Apr 6, 2009 5:38:34 GMT -6
My morning Vancian thought:
There is two ways for the -1 Hit Dice version:
* Roll 1d6 and retire it from the creature total.
* Reroll all Hit dice on the fly. This second method is far much funnier, as it could increase the actual number of hit points, even if it lower hit dices for fighting and saves purpose. Ie. If you roller 4d6 for hit, gets a 10, then roll 3d6 after the spells and gets a 15, the monster ahs more hit points!
Anyway, the difference, as Coffee noted, is just for the spell-caster - it don't apply to others!
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Post by apeloverage on Apr 7, 2009 0:58:10 GMT -6
Giant types: Kobolds Goblins Orcs Hobgoblins Gnolls Ogres Trolls Giants Gnomes Dwarves Elves Ents Acoording to the same, p. 19, the Balrog is a sub-specie of Dragon. I like that! Maybe the first list is creatures associated with earth, the second creatures associated with fire. And giants and dragons are the most powerful of each type, and therefore the 'ruler' or 'parent' of the type, like lions being the 'king of beasts'? |
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Post by snorri on Apr 8, 2009 13:20:26 GMT -6
I checked your idea, apeloverage, and it makes sense : there's a flying (air) and a swimming (water) list of monsters. It seems Undeads, Lycanthropes and Men escapes to this scheme. I could make sens as well : men are made of four elements, and undeads and lycanthropes are men too...
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Post by snorri on Apr 11, 2009 18:52:13 GMT -6
A few spells which have no duration and are not obviosuly instantaneous:
Charm person & Charm monster: last only if dispelled (the descritpion of Hold person, which has duration but te same effet on several creatures, confirm that idea).
Sleep (Is it a normal sleep duration, or forever?)
Locate object (but the object must be within range, so it can be used to follow an object).
Invisibility (until dispel or the character attack. You can live invisible and peaceful).
Polymorph others (until dispelled...)
Massmorph (yes, you could find an army massmorphed for centuries, while the wizard has been killed).
Hallucinatory terrain (as long as it as not been touched by an opponent...)
Feeblemind (until dispelled)
Control weather (one effect only, but btb it could last forever: you ask for sun, then forget to remove the spell and creates a desert....)
A lot of possible use of these!
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Post by coffee on Apr 12, 2009 0:33:06 GMT -6
Well, there's actual duration and then there's practical duration: Sleep (Is it a normal sleep duration, or forever?) It lasts until you've cut their throats. You can, but what's the point? That would be best used by a bad guy, lying in wait... Or until you've turned them into a goldfish and they die right away. Yes, there is! Good list. (I'd like to point out that many of the effects noted here in this thread have already been noted and "corrected" in later editions. One of the reasons the rules have bloated as much as they have is because people insist on having a hard and fast rule as opposed to a referee's ruling on each of these matters.) |
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 12, 2009 8:35:38 GMT -6
I suspect that most of the lengthy durations were intended to be "for the remainder of the battle" type spells.
If you stayed in the proximity of a Sleeping monster, it would stay sleeping, but if you left a section of the dungeon and then returned the monster would be awake again when you encountered it next. At least, that's the way we played it.
Time was always sort of loosey-goosey and we liked it that way. Also, it was kind of neat where the players wouldn't know exactly how long something like that would last. (No rules lawyers if there aren't any rules!)
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Post by dwayanu on Apr 12, 2009 16:20:08 GMT -6
Aside on invisibility: I once wrote up an Illusionist's lair prowled by an invisible house cat when Mistress was away. The effect on people who did not know what it was could be quite unnerving. Even when one does know what it is, yowling can be disturbing.
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Post by snorri on May 19, 2009 6:53:00 GMT -6
I checked the invisibilty description: it apply to things as well as to people. Range is 24'', but there's no clear aera of effect. Two possibles readings: range and aera are the same for a thing, so nothing bigger 24'' could be affected (or would be only partially), which enables to turn a small house or boat invisible. Or there is no aera of effect - which is awesome.
Invisibility 10'' radius would add a supplementary invisibility around the thing or person - but the potential effect could be surprising.
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