bert
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 138
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Post by bert on Apr 6, 2008 12:11:03 GMT -6
Social Class, Skills and Races in OEPT
I know some of you will think I am needlessly spoiling the pristine simplicity of OEPT with these suggestions, but IMO the social system of Tsolyánu is a very important aspect of the setting and needs some recognition in character generation. The system I am proposing will also give more variation between characters, and a modicum of ‘realism’ should you be interested in such things.
First a new stat: Social Status. The classic Barbarian starter will have Soc: 1, native Tsolyáni will start with the score on the table below.
Slave 0
Nakomé 1
Accepted Alien resident 3
Non-Clan Citizen 6
V Low Clan 10 9+1d3
Low Clan 20 19+1d3
Middle Clan 30 29+1d3
High Clan 40 39+1d3
V High Clan 50 49+1d3
Tlakotáni 60 59+1d3
Everyone gets +1 Soc per level, and can gain further Social status by performing suitable public services for the Imperium, Noble families, Temples etc. and gain extra status from promotion as an employee of such. You can of course lose social status by breaches of etiquette and being caught doing dishonourable things (even if you escape impalement by the courts and/or pay shámtla to the injured parties).
Having enough social status to be considered the next clan grade up does not automatically get you promoted – A Lev 10 Nakomé warrior might after a long career of delving in the tsuru’úm, performing missions for his noble patrons, making donations to his temple, being promoted to Molkár in a Legion etc. have a social status of 20. This does not make him ‘Low Clan’, he is still a Nakomé, but it will make it easier for him to join a clan should he so wish, and informally he will be regarded with more trust than a Very Low Clan labourer, even if people still formally greet him with ‘Ohé muleli Nakomé!’ (‘Get lost, scumbag’).
Each character draws skills not just from the professional skills list (OEPT page 20) but has a social class based list as well; this replaces the ‘Original Skills’ list on p18 and the rules for gaining more on p421. Some skill levels may be vacant, others may have more than one possible skill. PCs may still acquire training in original skills from clan masters at a suitable fee, and having sufficient social status will of course help.
You no longer need all the previous skills on a list to gain the next one, and you must take one skill from the social class table at first level. When gaining levels through experience you gain +1 skill per level from any table your PC qualifies for, with a 50% chance of gaining a second, and gain +1 max skill level. Thus if you start as a Nakome warrior, each further level you can choose from the Nakome list or the warrior list as you gain skills. If you join a clan you get access to the approproiate clan level list instead of Nakome.
Priests and Sorcerors must be at least semi-literate; if this means spending an initial skill on this talent, so be it; if you do not have high enough stats to access the skill at your clan level, you don't get into the temple school and you are relegated to being a warrior despite your potential; caste systems can be wasteful of talent.
Max skill level at 1st level
Primary stat 50 or below 3
Primary stat 51-70 4
Primary stat 71-80 5
Primary stat 81-90 6
Primary stat 90-100 7
Number of skills at 1st level
1-10 2
11-30 3
31-80 4
81-95 5
96-100 6
Edits: Changed points per caste level and number of skills gained per level, clarified which lists you can choose from.
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bert
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 138
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Post by bert on Apr 6, 2008 12:11:51 GMT -6
Skills
Nakomé Barbarian – Illiterate, 1d100Kt starting money
1 Labourer (+1d10 Con, +1d10 Str, -1d10 Int, -1d10 Com)
2 Speak Tsolyáni
3 Hunter (+1d10 Dex, -1d10 Guile) OR Fisherman (+1d10 Str, -1d10 Guile)
4 Streetwise* (if lived in Foreign Quarter 1 yr+) OR Mountaineer OR Survival
5 Potter, Weaver, Net Maker, Carpenter, Sail Maker, Butcher (all give +1 Social)
6 Semi-Literate (Int% roll to read Tsolyáni script)
7 (if at least semi-literate) Merchant, Ship Builder, Fletcher, Animal Trainer, Bird Trainer, (all give +1 Social), Slaver (+5d100Kt, -5 Social), Gladiator (if Warrior, no literacy req., +1d6-1d6 Social).
8 Contacts (Knows useful employers/contacts above him in status)
9 Fully Literate (automatically read Tsolyani script, +1 Social)
V. Low Clan – Illiterate, 1d20+20Kt starting money
1 Labourer (+1d10 Con, +1d10 Str, -1d10 Int, -1d10 Com)
2 Farmer (+1d10 Con, -1d10 Guile) OR Fisherman (+1d10 Str, -1d10 Guile)
3 Brawling (+1 to hit if unarmed), Wrestling (can restrain people), Slinger
4 Semi-Literate
5 Logger, Cart-Driver, Bricklayer, Miner, Tanner, Net-maker, Mat-Weaver, Sweeper (covers all low grade servant occupations), Legionnaire (if Warrior, barracks room social skills and working in a unit) (all +1 Social)
6 Subservience (Can crawl to superiors, +1d10 Guile, +1 Social))
7 Guard (if Warrior – can spot suspicious people)
8 Foreman (can boss lesser clansmen, +1 Social)
9 Fully Literate (+1 Social)
Low Clan – Illiterate, 2d20+20Kt starting money
1 Labourer (+1d10 Con, +1d10 Str, -1d10 Int, -1d10 Com)
2 Farmer (+1d10 Con, -1d10 Guile) OR Fisherman (+1d10 Str, -1d10 Guile) OR Apprentice (+1d10 Guile, -1d10 Con)
3 Semi-Literate
4 Cart-Driver, Peddlar, Baker, Barber, Bootmaker, Bricklayer, Carpenter, Cook, Dyer, Mason, Paper-Maker, Potter, Sail-Maker, Tailor, Weaver, Brewer, Wine-Maker, Wheelwright, Sailor (all +1 Social)
5 Crossbowman (if Warrior), Bowman (if Warrior), Legionnaire (if Warrior, barracks room social skills and working in a unit), Guard (if Warrior – can spot suspicious people), Fletcher
6 Subservience (Can crawl to superiors, +1d10 Guile), Foreman (can boss other clansmen, +1 Social)
7 Sergeant (if Warrior, command small group of soldiers, interprets orders of superiors, +1 Social)
8 Fully Literate (+1 Social)
9 Negotiator (can deal with social superiors on behalf of clan, +1 Social)
Middle Clan – Semi-Literate, 3d20+40Kt starting money
1 Farmer (+1d10 Con, -1d10 Guile) OR Apprentice (+1d10 Guile, -1d10 Con) OR Clerk (+1d10 Int, -1d10 Str)
2 Barber, Bootmaker, Dyer, Glass-Blower, Grocer, Mason, Paper-Maker, Perfumer, Tailor, Brewer, Wine-maker, Wheelwright, Major-Domo (+1 Social)
3 Subservience (Can crawl to superiors, +1d10 Guile, +1 Social)
4 Fully Literate
5 Armourer, Fletcher, Gold/Silversmith, Jeweller, Scribe, Accountant, Ship-Builder, Sailor, Animal Trainer, Bird Trainer, Legionnaire (if Warrior, barracks room social skills and working in a unit) (+1 Social)
6 Sergeant (if Warrior, command small group of soldiers, interpret orders of superiors), Staff Officer, Supervisor (middle manger in Temple or Palaces, -1d10 Con, +1d10 Int, +1d10 Guile) (+1 Social)
7 Merchant (+5d100Kt), Alchemist, Artist, Physician, Lawyer (+1 Social), Navigator, Ship-Captain
8 Etiquette (deal with all social classes, +1d10 Guile, +1 Social), Wealth (1d100 month income from clan businesses), Money-Lender (if clan is involved in this trade +10d100Kt), Slaver (if clan is involved in this trade, +10d100+1000Kt, -5 Social)
9 Scholar (+1 Soc if Priest), Collector, Author
High Clan – Semi-Literate, 10d20+100Kt starting money
1 Educated (Fully Literate, +1d10 Int, -1d10 Con) OR Squire (+1d10 Con, -1d10 Guile) OR Noble (+1d10 Str, -1d10 Int)
2 Fully Literate
3 Style (+1d10 Com, +1d10 Guile, -1d10 Con, +1 Social), Artist, Scribe, Accountant, Merchant, Ship-Captain
4 Sergeant (if Warrior, command small group of soldiers, interpret orders of superiors), Staff Officer, Supervisor (middle manger in Temple or Palaces, -1d10 Con, +1d10 Int, +1d10 Guile), Duellist (Swordsman skill, plus etiquette and code of duelling), Imperious (overawes low castes)
5 Alchemist, Astronomer, Astrologer, Scholar (+1 Soc if Priest), Engineer, Architect, Siegecraft (if Warrior), Interpreter, Jeweller, Arruché (if Warrior, sword and dagger fighting style)
6 Etiquette (deal with all social classes, +1d10 Guile, +1 Social), Wealth (2d100 month income from clan businesses), Heirloom (inherit useful magic or steel item), Seduction (min 50 Comeliness)
7 Politics, Diplomat (if have Interpreter AND Etiquette)
8 Commander (if Warrior, acts as field officer), Contacts (knows people in Palaces and other positions of power)
9 Strategist (if Warrior)
10 Title holder (has inherited noble title of some kind, +1d3 Social), Fief holder (administers family owned lands, business, house etc. considerable income IF time devoted to working)
Very High Clan – Fully Literate, 10d20+400Kt starting money
1 Educated (+1d10 Int, -1d10 Con) OR Squire (+1d10 Con, -1d10 Guile) OR Noble (+1d10 Str, -1d10 Int)
2 Style (+1d10 Com, +1d10 Guile, -1d10 Con, +1 Social)
3 Staff Officer, Supervisor (middle manger in Temple or Palaces, -1d10 Con, +1d10 Int, +1d10 Guile), Duellist (Swordsman skill, plus etiquette and code of duelling), Imperious (overawes low castes), Interpreter
4 Arruché (if Warrior, sword and dagger fighting style), Scholar (+1 Soc if Priest)
5 Etiquette (deal with all social classes, +1d10 Guile, +1 Social), Wealth (4d100 month income from clan businesses), Heirloom (inherit useful magic or steel item), Seduction (min 50 Comeliness), Wastrel (1d10 x 1000Kt debt, +1d3 Social), Rake (has 1d6 outstanding debts of honour, +1d3 Social)
6 Great Wealth (+4d100 month income from clan businesses)
7 Politics, Diplomat (if have Interpreter AND Etiquette)
8 Patron of the Arts (+1 Social), Commander (if Warrior, acts as field officer), Contacts (knows people in Palaces and other positions of power)
9 Strategist (if Warrior)
10 Title holder (has inherited noble title of some kind, +1d3 Social), Fief holder (administers family owned lands, business, house etc. considerable income IF time devoted to working)
And as an example of Non-Human
Pygmy Folk
All Pygmy Folk start with:
Social 1, females start with Social 3
1d100Kt
-1 HP per HD due to small size
+3AC due to size
Can see in near total darkness
Hear noise 1-3 on d6
Semi-Literate in own langauge
Stats
Str 1d100x0.5
Int 1d100
Con 1d100
PsyAb 1d100
Dex 1d100x0.7 + 30
Guile 1d100x0.5 + 50
Com 1d100 (-20 to other species)
Skills
1 Speak Yan Koryani, Speak Tsolyani
2 +1 Hear noise and +10% spot hidden, Streetwise* (if lived in Foreign Quarter 1 yr+)
3 Potter, Weaver, Net Maker, Carpenter, Sail Maker, Butcher (all give +1 Social), Merchant (+1d10 Guile, -1 Social as all Pygmy Folk merchants are considered dishonest)
4 Stealthy (+1d10 Dex), Fully Literate
5 Sapper (as Warrior skill), Ship Builder, Fletcher, Animal Trainer, Bird Trainer, (all give +1 Social), Slaver (+5d100Kt, -5 Social)
6 Evade danger, +2 on all saves
7 Use Blowpipe and poison darts (if Warrior)
8 +1 Hear noise and +10% spot hidden
9 Tracking
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bert
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 138
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Post by bert on Apr 6, 2008 12:12:17 GMT -6
Examples:
Arjan is a Level 1 Warrior of the Very Low Glass Spear clan. He has Str 74, giving a maximum skill level of 5 and he can have (dice roll = 43) four skills.
He must choose one skill from the social list and takes Labourer (level 1). He has spent a lot of time digging sand and clay for his clan brick makers, and gains +4 Con and +7 Str from the back breaking labour but loses 4 Int from the stultifying dullness of the work and 9 Comeliness from being exposed to the sun and harsh weather.
He takes Axeman and Slinger from the Warrior list, useful basic skills for budding legionary and then Bricklayer from the social list; a useful trade should he hit lean times in the adventuring business, it enables him to spot unsafe walls and weak points, estimate the age of a piece of brickwork (useful in the tsuru’úm) and gains +1 Social, as it is a trade expected of one of his clan.
He starts with just 31Kt and is illiterate as one would expect of a building labourer, but he has 74+7 = 81 Str, enough to wield a heavy battle axe.
Qorushái is a Priest of Hrü’ü, the favourite deity of his high ranking Dark Fear clan. He is Level 4; he started with Int 84 giving a skill level of 6 and five initial skills. He starts with 23 Social Status, and has Guile 67
He took ESP, Detect Evil/Good, Produce Light and know 2 Ancient Languages (Classical Tsolyáni and Bednálljan) from the Priest list at first level, and Educated from the Social list – he spent a lot of time in temple schools, poring over the black pages of the Expositions of Diversification in Darkness under the green light of the moon Gayel, gaining 2 Int and losing 5 Con due to the lack of exercise and damp.
He gains another skill at 2nd level, rolls 67 losing out on a second, and can have a level 7 skill, but he chooses Style – as a young member of High Clan it is not all hanging about in darkened temples, he adds a few fashionable accessories to his robes and hangs out with his friends once in a while. He gains +6 Comeliness due to expertise in fashionable dress and cosmetics, +3 Guile from hearing and spreading scurrilous tales, +1 Social from being ‘on the scene’ with other young nobles, and loses another 5 Con from drugs and drink.
At 3rd Level he rolls 34 gaining two skills; he takes Scholar: Demonology. This enables him to take part in some pretty hairy rituals, spot the influence of Beings from Beyond and gains +1 Social. He isn’t just a drugged out rake, he is a serious scholar, as all priests should be, and his Temple superiors take note. He also takes Control Person, the level 8 priest skill, enabling him to keep his minions under control while the horrors of the outer planes drool in their vicinity.
At 4th Level he rolls 23, gaining another two skills. He acquires the skill Etiquette from the Social list gaining +8 Guile and +1 Social. He is moving on from being a young party goer and frequenting more formal banquets where he can rub shoulders with his temple superiors and the notables of his home city, and the skill Wealth, gaining him 2d100= 108Kt/Month from his clan coffers.
Qorushái now has 23 + 3 (from skills) +3 (from level) = 29 Social status, and a Guile of 67+3+8 = 78. This is well into the Very High Clan range; he may not be much of a magician, but he is well placed with his Style and Etiquette skills to negotiate himself an advantageous marriage into a higher status clan, and the high Guile won’t hurt when it comes to skating over possible deficiencies in wealth and promotion prospects.
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bert
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 138
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Post by bert on Apr 6, 2008 12:14:08 GMT -6
OK, praise, condemnation, brickbats, invitation to Streblosis, etc. I've got my hard hat on...  |
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 6, 2008 12:55:01 GMT -6
Bert - this looks quite good, on a first read. You might want to space out the relationship between different social status groups by more than five points, however. It really depends on how true to "real Tekumel" you want to be - if you want it very close, then your scale should be MUCH larger. If you want a more adventure game oriented scale, keeping as you have it would be good.
I'll look at it a bit more closely and see if I can poke any holes in your set-up. But it does look pretty good!
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bert
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 138
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Post by bert on Apr 6, 2008 15:57:05 GMT -6
I agree, I should have made the gaps wider. I want some kind of numerical system that will allow scuzzy Nakome adventurers the chance to get adopted into a reasonable clan if they put enough effort into being socially acceptable and get to a high enough level. Maybe 10 points per clan grade?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2008 16:13:02 GMT -6
I will have more comments later, I hope. First thing that hit me was that, as I understand it, Nakome is lower than slave. many slaves have clans. I also agree that the scale needs stretching. But, I think the idea is sound..
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bert
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 138
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Post by bert on Apr 6, 2008 16:59:30 GMT -6
Nakome is not lower than slave, it is just different. Slaves have to all intents and purposes been ejected from their clan, though their relatives may well look out for their dependents for them and in some cases attempt to purchase their freedom. Shamtla for harming a slave goes to the owner not the slave's original clan.
The Nakome being considered here are the PC barbarian types, with no links to the local society, not the poor beggars, cut price day-labourers, crippled ex-slaves, bandits and runaways that constitute native Tsolyani Nakome.
In many ways slaves are better off than Nakome - someone has invested cash in them and will look after them to some extent - in others they have it worse. Most Tsolyani would rather be a slave than a Nakome, they like to know their place and have stability in their lives.
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Post by greentongue on Apr 6, 2008 18:39:45 GMT -6
Very interesting work. I agree, I should have made the gaps wider. I want some kind of numerical system that will allow scuzzy Nakome adventurers the chance to get adopted into a reasonable clan if they put enough effort into being socially acceptable and get to a high enough level. Maybe 10 points per clan grade? Allowing scuzzy Nakome adventurers a chance, is helpful for a variant to the Original EPT. I harp on the idea that New players should not be expected to know much if anything about the setting. That they should be able to progress easier as they learn it, not be penalized at every turn for not knowing. Otherwise the tradition of alienating or scaring off new players will continue. The hook is sharp. They should not feel it at the first nibble. = |
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 6, 2008 20:28:32 GMT -6
I will have more comments later, I hope. First thing that hit me was that, as I understand it, Nakome is lower than slave. many slaves have clans. I also agree that the scale needs stretching. But, I think the idea is sound.. It's interesting that you mention that. While it is true that some slaves were once members of their clan, it's a little unclear what happens to their clan status - there are many cases of people whose clan cousins were able to purchase them and then manumit them. I assume that their clan status is restored, but I'm not sure how this works. Whenever we've gotten sold into slavery, our clans haven't expressed much interest in "redeeming" us, even for "valuable prizes." I suspect a Blue Room search might turn something up, but I don't recall this conversation ever arising before. Hmmm. |
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bert
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 138
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Post by bert on Apr 7, 2008 14:43:43 GMT -6
I've based what I said on the Sourcebook; I would suspect the reasons for a person being enslaved in the first place would have a large part to play in whether their clan takes any interest in their plight.
I can't see them shifting a finger for a fool who has run up huge personal debt, petty criminals may well get little sympathy from their clan elders, and of course it all depends on whether the owner of the slave is willing to allow them to be manumitted. A person with skills is going to be hard to get back. If the clan does get them back, their status within the clan is going to be seriously damaged and they are going to be the elders whipping boy for quite a while.
Where a person has been conned into slavery I can see status being restored more quickly, especially if they can prove in public they were the victim of fraud. A question for the Yahoo Tekumel group?
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 7, 2008 14:58:46 GMT -6
I suspect the answer will be: "it varies." Now, the variation might be interesting (and in fact you might build an interesting scenario around this).
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edsan
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
MUTANT LORD
Posts: 309
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Post by edsan on Apr 7, 2008 20:39:39 GMT -6
The way I see it slaves might have more status than Nakome depending on exactly who the slave and Nakome in question are. The favorite slave-girl of Princess Ma'in, you know, the one that does her hair every morning certainly has more status than all the scum in the foreign quarter. She's a non-person and Ma'in might decide to give her to the temple of Dlamelish for sacrifice on a whim. But while her mistress enjoys the slave's company...woe betide any who would harm her favourite pet! Heck! Speaking of pets, Prince Rereshqala's favourite hunting Kuni-bird probably has more status than any nakome foreigner too. Ultimately, status in Tekumel measures how much pull you have with groups that can make life miserable for others if they cross/harm you. E.g. - a high-circle Priest of a High clan as lots of status because he has a powerful/rich clan backing him up. The temple hierarchy also like to make sure nothing happens to one of their own. I have toyed with the notion of making up a numerical system to measure status, but I found such things are unquantifiable in "reality" and you only need to know the status difference between two personages in the "roughly equal", "clearly superior", "way higher than yours", etc, sense. That said, your alternate character generation system looks quite nifty and I shall test it at once. |
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edsan
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
MUTANT LORD
Posts: 309
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Post by edsan on Apr 7, 2008 21:41:36 GMT -6
Right. I used bert's system to make an OEPT PC and here's what I got.
I determined his level and clan status randomly. The name was generated using Prof. Barker's "Tsolyani Names Without Tears" article from Strategic Review Vol1No4.
Name: Athau hiLmuabu
Class: Warrior
Level: 3rd
Clan: Very Low
Initial funds: 29 kaitars
STR 79
INT 81
CON 64
PSY 35
DEX 53
COM 22
GUI 53
SOC 12
Skills: Legionnaire, Swordsman, Spear-man, Semi-Literate, Subservience
These are the final stats with all the math done. I envision ol' Athau as a late 20's or early 30's gruff Legionnaire just coming to the end of his enlistment period. He managed to attain the rank of Tirrikamu quite recently (hence he lacks the skill). He was born unattractive and those facials scars he got fighting those pesky Yan Koryani didn't help much. He learned to keep is mouth shut when needed and fawn over his superiors; that eased his promotion. He barely knows how to read, courtesy of a lay-priest clan cousin who took the time and patience to sit with him and teach him the basics.
My comments:
As someone mentioned the SOC numbers need to be more distanced from each other. Athau is pushing towards the end of a Low Clan status. I don't think just being a Tirrikamu would cut this much slack in society. At level 6 he will have the status of a Middle clansman(!). Maybe you should disassociate status from level altogether and just gain it for in-game reasons? This would also have the added bonus of making player's strive towards something else than just gold and xp. The only Level ---> Status guideline I would see myself keeping would be that foreigners need to live and work in Tsolyanu until they gain two levels (regardless of their initial starting level) before becoming acclimatised to the society and being able to interact socially without fear of pissing off Tsolyani folk 16.66% of the time; and gain 3 more levels before they catch someone's attention and get sponsored for Citizenship.
Clan membership of course would be a pure matter of role-playing and getting access to wads of cash for "inducements".
In OEPT a starting character can have anything from 3-15 starting skills with an average of 6. In your system the average is 4 with a cap of 6. I think this is too little (see bellow).
In the rules when a PC levels up he always gets 1 (professional) skill with a 50% chance of gaining a second. I think you should likewise give a player a 50% chance of getting 2 skills instead of one, specially considering that they begin with less skills on average.
Why do Very Low, Low and Medium clanmembers begin with so little money and the first two with a lower maximum than clanless barbarians?
I was confused by one thing. Each level you get a new skill from any list. Does this mean you can select skills from different social classes/professions up to your skill level limit as long as you can justify getting it?
And now the good stuff:
I quite like the way your system helps to envision a character as you roll it and love the way certain skills can alter your Basic Talents.
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bert
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 138
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Post by bert on Apr 8, 2008 14:46:46 GMT -6
As someone mentioned the SOC numbers need to be more distanced from each other. Athau is pushing towards the end of a Low Clan status. I don't think just being a Tirrikamu would cut this much slack in society. At level 6 he will have the status of a Middle clansman(!). Agreed, will edit the original post to give ten points between social levels. I went with the system and numbers I did because of section 900 on p. 37; at Lev 3 you get the right of free travel, at Lev 6 citizenship,and on p93 it implies that you can, with sufficent level, get quite high ranking jobs in the Tsolyani establishment without neccessarily joining a clan. I still think level should have a social status attached to it - one does not p*** off a highpower sorcerer who can fry your brain soon as look at you by calling him a Nakome to his face even if he is. I will extend the range in a modifcation to the post, but I see no background reason why in practice the word of a very high ranking middle clanner with lots of dosh and control of many dependents, employees and slaves would not outweigh that of a snotty young high clanner with only a fancy lineage surname in a court or in the considerations of the Palaces. The High clanner gets the polite deference, the middle clanner the real political clout. I haven't quite worked out how the status number will be applied to die rolls in social contests yet, but it can serve as a rough score of how far you are proceeding up Tsolyani society. IMO the original system gave way too many 'Original Skills'. Why should a person have so many trade skills? Butcher and Jeweller and Oratory? My drastic reduction in number of skills and who gets access to what at what clan level is an effort in the direction of 'realism'; access to one or maybe two basic craft skills at first, more advanced ones at higher levels, if you wnat lots of crafts you lose out on other things like professional skills. Ok, 1 skill per level is a bit parsimonious - 1.5 a level is OK - I want a real choice between professional and class skills and each character being different and unique. Again a step in the direction of 'realism'. Equipment is pretty cheap in OEPT; 50Kt gets you a sword, leather armour and a shield. Low clanners should be faced with their poverty and the need to economise, steal, improvise, go into the scary depths of the tsuru'um for their betters etc. at least at first. Nakome get on average more as they are rootless wanderers pitching up in Jakalla with their entire worldly goods. This may be nothing much or a fair pile, but it is all they get, ever. The clan member gets a clan, food and roof over his head and the chance to earn legitimate cash, relatives he can persuade to be his henchmen, cheap training in some skills, political clout at higher levels and so on. Money is not everything in Tsolyanu - in fact it is often of no importance at all. Vagueness on my part; should have said any list your PC qualifies for. Thus if you start a Nakome you have the professional list, the nakome list and that's all. If you later join a clan you can get the professional list and the clan list of the appropriate level. I also have plans to introduce yet more complications with a third list related to your religion (Torture being available to Chiteng and Kinky Sex to Hrihayal frex, Swordsman being available at low level for all members of Karakan, even priests and sorcerors, Int bonuses for Thumis, Guile bonuses for Ksarulites, social status for Hnalla and so on...) Ta! I liked the idea of different social classes having different strengths, hard-as-nails peasants, smart craftsmen and scribes, cunning and duplicitous nobles, and as I said I wanted more variation in characters. They do all get a bit samey, especially warriors, and in the original version their skills revolve around the routine dungeon bash, not the more varied adventure types I prefer. |
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edsan
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
MUTANT LORD
Posts: 309
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Post by edsan on Apr 8, 2008 21:05:26 GMT -6
I also have plans to introduce yet more complications with a third list related to your religion (Torture being available to Chiteng and Kinky Sex to Hrihayal frex, Swordsman being available at low level for all members of Karakan, even priests and sorcerors, Int bonuses for Thumis, Guile bonuses for Ksarulites, social status for Hnalla and so on...) Please do so and share it with the unwashed masses. You should compile a final DOC or PDF version and upload it to Tekumel.com and the yahoo mailing list. Your lists are the most interesting OEPT gaming material I've seen in quite a long time. |
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bert
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 138
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Post by bert on Apr 9, 2008 14:04:28 GMT -6
I am sure those who play OEPT have all sorts of house rules they employ to do the same kind of thing I have tried to do; I am just the one who has stuck it on the net. When I get round to finishing this off, I will do a PDF of it, but any suggestions (or entire lists of skills) greatly appreciated in the meantime.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2008 10:12:21 GMT -6
The way I see it slaves might have more status than Nakome depending on exactly who the slave and Nakome in question are. The favorite slave-girl of Princess Ma'in, you know, the one that does her hair every morning certainly has more status than all the scum in the foreign quarter. She's a non-person and Ma'in might decide to give her to the temple of Dlamelish for sacrifice on a whim. But while her mistress enjoys the slave's company...woe betide any who would harm her favourite pet! Heck! Speaking of pets, Prince Rereshqala's favourite hunting Kuni-bird probably has more status than any nakome foreigner too. Ultimately, status in Tekumel measures how much pull you have with groups that can make life miserable for others if they cross/harm you. E.g. - a high-circle Priest of a High clan as lots of status because he has a powerful/rich clan backing him up. The temple hierarchy also like to make sure nothing happens to one of their own. I have toyed with the notion of making up a numerical system to measure status, but I found such things are unquantifiable in "reality" and you only need to know the status difference between two personages in the "roughly equal", "clearly superior", "way higher than yours", etc, sense. That said, your alternate character generation system looks quite nifty and I shall test it at once. I submit that any slave has greater social value than any nakome as they are, at the vary least, the property of someone with social standing. Kill a slave, even a cheap one, and the owner will rightfully demand restitution shmatla. Kill a Nakome, and you may be expected to have someone dispose of the waste. Now, there are probably slaves who are Nakome, but, as property, I suspect they have higher status than unowned Nakome. If a Barbarian damages a slave, the barbarian will suffer. If a slave damages a barbarian, the slave probably will not. I also suspect that many Slaves maintain their clan status, though this may be completely wrong. Most slaves in Tsolyanu, as I understand, are not tethered. Society relies upon social convention to keep most of them in line. If I am sold into slavery by my clan to pay my debts, It is expected that I will not further dishonor my clan by being a bad slave as well. Certainly, those who are likely to bring further dishonor would be cast out of the clan as well, but, I suspect, in Tekumel's highly honor conscious society, I would more likely accept the fate the weaver had given me. But, I admit, my experience with Tekumel lore is pretty limited. |
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Post by thorswulf on Apr 10, 2008 14:24:15 GMT -6
I like the ideas presented here. I think part of the problem with EPT for some folks is that they just don't understand that the Tsolyani are NOT social climbers. To act noble is to be noble whether slave or Tlakitoni. Supporting your clan, be devoted in your faith, and devote your life to being the best at what you do makes one noble in character, and by action.
Nakome are to be shunned because they have violated the code! Can they redeem themselves? Possibly in another country! Possibly by pulling off a "Four Feathers" redemption adventure. And then again, maybe they will never redeem themselves. Such is the skien of destiny.....
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edsan
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
MUTANT LORD
Posts: 309
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Post by edsan on Apr 12, 2008 22:20:20 GMT -6
I like the ideas presented here. I think part of the problem with EPT for some folks is that they just don't understand that the Tsolyani are NOT social climbers. I respectfully must disagree. The whole purpose of life for most free folk in EPT is social climbing. Heck, the whole purpose of EPT is playing a foreigner and trying to obtain citizenship and membership in a clan rather than the simple accumulation of gold pieces and magical artifacts. If that's not social climbing I don't know what it is. Right, on Tekumel you are expected to fulfill your role as well as you can and defer to those above you, but in doing so you can expect to climb up in your Clan/Temple/Legion. Depending on where you start there will be a ceiling on where you may get unless you are really extraordinary and/or something uncommon happens to give you a boost. Just look for a moment at all the internecine happening on Tsolyanu: Party vs. Party, Temple vs. Temple, Clan vs. Clan, Imperial Prince vs. Imperial Prince, etc. Not to mention the silent infighting taking place between the members in all these organizations as they seek their slice of the cake and become richer, more powerful and more influential than what they already are. The "good clangirls" of Tekumel play their games of intrigue and also do their own social climbing. E.g. Essilia just got promoted from 3rd wife to second and is grooming her kid to the couchy position uncle Jagyiel, who is a 7th Circle bureaucrat at the Palace of the Realm will grant him, if she sucks up to him really good, etc. Even slaves can climb socially. Inside a clanhouse there are favorites and the first among the last have the ears of their masters. As I have mentioned before, IMHO the social nuances of Tekumel are not at all that different from any pre-industrial society of old Earth. You have them rules, and them social differences and inequalities but history is littered who people who break the mold and so is Tekumel. Of course, most people on Tekumel will not achieve huge leaps and bounds of social promotion during their lifetimes. But there will be a few exceptions (which ammounts to quite a lot of people considering all the millions living in the 5 Empires) and some of these will be mind-boggling. Just like in real life, i guess. P.S. - Just remembered about Baron Ald. The man is the best example of what you can achieve in Tekumel. From a Saa Alaqi barbarian to Baron (i.e. Dictator for Life) of Yan Kor. I'm sorry but I think saying people in EPT aren't social climbers is doing the game a diservice by misrepresenting it. |
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bert
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 138
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Post by bert on Apr 22, 2008 10:19:59 GMT -6
Latest version of Social Class rules for OEPT are posted in the Files section at: games.groups.yahoo.com/group/tekumelrpg/files/dropped the numerical scoring of social status - it isn't going to work - added skill success %ages based on level and stats and a did a couple of Rleigion tables. Anyone who would care to add more religion and/or Non-human tables is more than welcome. |
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