Who Here Has Gamed in Middle-earth?

[kent]

Middle-earth is such a rich resource it seems a shame not to try your hand at at least a mini-campaign of say 6-10 eight hour sessions. I have only experienced a farcical adventure using the rolemaster rules (rules I loved) but the DM had no grip on the setting. I ended up physically running after some other PC who had possession of the One ring. Yes, we laughed but it wasn't the kind of game that players would discuss afterwards.

Tolkien, aside from being a very good writer, was a sort of uber-DM with no players. I was reminded looking at his map for the Turin story in HoME iv how messy and overloaded with information really functional maps are. I don't think Ive ever seen a wilderness map that captures the D&D spirit so well for me. I make neat maps but sometimes I want to muss them up like the crappy ones I had when I was in my teens.

Interesting as playing in Third Age Middle-earth would be can you imagine gaming in the First Age? I don't mean the Mythical high glory of a knight of Fingolfin. Im thinking more of a Icelandic Saga type of rough warrior recruited by Turin as an outlaw hunting Orcs. That would be plenty for me. I think you could take OD&D and *strip it down* and use Foster's Encyclopedia of Middle-earth and Tolkien's ready made maps and create some memorable adventures. Im one of those DMs who just doesn't want to use anyone else's material, but Tolkien? Yeah - why not.

[scottenkainen]

Someday I will. Someday.

[waysoftheearth]

I ran a Moria game on these boards a while back:
odd74.proboards.com/board/93/waysoftheearth-moria-pbp

[Vile Traveller]

I both ran and played in a long-running Middle Earth campaign using the old RuneQuest rules, based on a Mythago Wood premise. It wasn't tongue-in-cheek at all, even though the majority of PCs were modern-day (well, modern-day in the 80s) unemployed British youths with no real skills.

I also played in a straight-up I.C.E. game and I hated it.

[Porphyre]

Same here, I played the MERP extensively back in the days, but I soon became tired of it.

First, those god**nawful combat charts: I worked myself on simplified ones by the end of my tenure as a GM.
Second, the critical tables: they made me chuckle the first times, but by the end I found the grim humor out of place for a tolkienian game (better suited for WarhammerFRPG)

Third, my players: some weren't Tolkien buffs, and there wasn't a feeling of a "shared world", the others were power gamers who played it like a typical Monthy Haul D&D campaign (they tried to scrap the mithril engravings of the Moria gate!)

[kent]

Mar 17, 2014 1:12:19 GMT -6 Vile Traveller said:

I both ran and played in a long-running Middle Earth campaign using the old RuneQuest rules, based on a Mythago Wood premise. It wasn't tongue-in-cheek at all, even though the majority of PCs were modern-day (well, modern-day in the 80s) unemployed British youths with no real skills.

That's interesting. In the early 20th century fantasy writers often felt the need to introduce readers to their worlds through the eyes of contemporary protagonists, often promptly discarding them. For modern gaming it may be a neat way of getting around the dull force feeding of background knowledge.

For me one difficulty with Middle-earth gaming is magical power. It seems to be innate rather than cosmic and concentrated at the high end of power rather than distributed linearly down to apprentices and novices who don't really exist.

[waysoftheearth]

Another challenge for ME gaming is that many players will have strong opinions about what "should be" or "did occur" in ME. This can be a pro but also a con. My solution was to set my game in the period AFTER the Tolkien stories. This enables all player knowledge of ME to map directly to history/lore their PC could reasonably be expected to known.

Regarding M-Us, one solution is to vest virtually all magical powers in objects. M-Us then need not be innately powerful, but can be powerful by virtue of their recognising these objects, and understanding their qualities and how to use them.

[Falconer]

The Hobbit feels the most D&D-like of Tolkien’s works (though I would be happy for someone to challenge that). It has a feel as if he started off the adventure and just “rolled for encounters on a table” that included elements from his First Age stories plus elements from Germanic mythology that he had not used before. A lot of his writings were done in that stream-of-consciousness style, of course, and the maps always came later. That kind of makes me think that’s the way to go in running a campaign. Mine all of his writings (even “non-Middle-earth” stuff like The Father Christmas Letters and Roverandom and Smith of Wootton Major), but above all The Book of Lost Tales, Part Two. Identify a starting point and an end point for the quest. And let all the middle stuff develop spontaneously along the way.

Example: Hidden or Magically Warded Elf Kingdom

Nargothrond, Rivendell, the Halls of the Elvenking, Lothlórien… these places popped into existence onto the map along the path of Turin, Bilbo, and Frodo (only Doriath and Gondolin, I suppose, served as true starting and end points). Surely more of these exist and are likely to be encountered/discovered by PCs. Ideas: A pure Silvan kingdom founded by Nimrodel. A Noldo (Feanorian?) city in the Misty Mountains founded by refugees or renegades from Eregion (somewhat like ICE’s Amon Lind idea).

[Finarvyn]

I've run several Middle-earth campaigns with various rules sets, mostly OD&D and MERP but also The One Ring (short campaign) and Amber Diceless (also short).

One advantage of ME is that folks are familiar with it through the books and/or movies. Makes it easy to set the scene. On the other hand, sometimes they fall into the "what are we supposed to do" syndrome, so I usually run my games during the Hobbit era or after the RotK.

[Porphyre]

The Hobbit era seems the better time for a tolkienian campaign: Middle Earth is full of ruins of ancient kingdoms that players can roam without the risk of stepping on someone's of importance toes: Arnor, Angmar, Ereigion, Moria (maybe the ultimaye mega-dungeon of ME!)

[Vile Traveller]

Mar 17, 2014 19:04:54 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

My solution was to set my game in the period AFTER the Tolkien stories.

That's interesting - one point I forgot to mention is that all my ME games were set in the 4th age, for much the same reason (and because none of us liked to have the future mapped out for our characters).

[Finarvyn]

I always assume that the "future" may or may not happen as it did in the books. Whenever I start a campaign in a pre-determined storyline (in ME or Star Wars or anything else) I assume that the history is usually as per the books but anything new can be changed and/or altered by the actions of the characters.

[Torreny]

Me and one of the old groups tried out one of the Middle Earth RPGs (I don't think it was MERP) gave it one session, and just left it behind. The session got aborted, and probably isn't worth noting here.

[Falconer]

Mar 19, 2014 4:13:15 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

I always assume that the "future" may or may not happen as it did in the books. Whenever I start a campaign in a pre-determined storyline (in ME or Star Wars or anything else) I assume that the history is usually as per the books but anything new can be changed and/or altered by the actions of the characters.

Same.

[kent]

Mar 17, 2014 19:04:54 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

Another challenge for ME gaming is that many players will have strong opinions about what "should be" or "did occur" in ME. This can be a pro but also a con. My solution was to set my game in the period AFTER the Tolkien stories. This enables all player knowledge of ME to map directly to history/lore their PC could reasonably be expected to known.

In a sense it is a wasted opportunity not to go with players who have a deep appreciation for Tolkien's work. Tapping into all those hours already spent visualising the environment and the characters could make the game absorbing for all. Given that readers will have different appreciations of the stories and characters I would say it is best to air these differences before the DM makes too many decisions about the look and feel of the campaign. Putting my player hat on I have no doubt that a campaign could grind to a halt if the DM presented Middle-earth Elves in a way I could not buy into. It may as well be D&D in that case.

As a creative DM I have little interest in player input outside of his character alone. As a Middle-earth DM I would have to work with the players I think to create the campaign. My interest would be in the time of Turin, so player views on the Silmarillion and Children of Hurin could be aired first. Hell, that goes on occasionally having nothing to do with rpgs.

For example, players and DM would need to see eye to eye on the relative power of important background characters.

That might be an interesting topic, first conceiving of a means of ranking power - not necessarily D&D level (its probably better to make up some non D&D rules for Middle-earth ), and second ranking the important characters.

[kent]

Mar 17, 2014 20:24:16 GMT -6 Falconer said:

The Hobbit feels the most D&D-like of Tolkien’s works (though I would be happy for someone to challenge that).

Possibly that is generally true. My own games tend, if they have any Tolkien influence, to reflect elements of the First Age stories.

However, there is no need to use D&D, in fact concocting a compact tailored set of rules would be better.

Mar 17, 2014 20:24:16 GMT -6 Falconer said:

A lot of his writings were done in that stream-of-consciousness style, of course, and the maps always came later.

Mar 17, 2014 20:24:16 GMT -6 Falconer said:

Nargothrond, Rivendell, the Halls of the Elvenking, Lothlórien… these places popped into existence onto the map along the path of Turin, Bilbo, and Frodo (only Doriath and Gondolin, I suppose, served as true starting and end points). Surely more of these exist and are likely to be encountered/discovered by PCs.

The map in HoMe iv of Beleriand looks more heavily used than any D&D map Ive seen. I think it is important to distinguish Tolkien from most other fantasy writers as someone who imagined a realistic landscape so closely that it could be mapped unlike Howard, Vance, Leiber et al. for whom token maps can be produced without convincing there is a coherent landscape behind them.

I think you are confusing the creative process, where ideas 'pop' into existence of necessity particularly when the environment is not fully developed, with a sort of continually unmapped out incoherence.

[Deleted]

Evening all! I'm planning on running a LBB Middle-earth campaign this saturday, and would like a bit of input

The campaign will take place one year before the events of the Hobbit, magic is allowed as described in the rules, and will, at first, take place around Archet and surroundings, so northern Eriador.

The first session will involve bandits and some 'subtle' hints about the Necromancer.

Now I need some tips and adventure hooks, so please, fire away with questions and helpful additions!

[cooper]

Drop magic-users and clerics. Make wizards and sorcerers sages from the blackmoor supplement. Perhaps also include the alchemist and scribe classes introduced in various dragon magazines. Introduce artifacts and relics into the game. It doesn't have to be "the one ring", any super powerful artifact as the locus around which the campaign is based would work to bring the "feel" of LotR to your game. Other magic items, the small stuff, should be associated with elves or dwarves or black numenorians and not just generic +1 sword or cloak of protection, but cloaks of elvenkind, hammer of thunderbolts, dagger of life stealing etc.

[Porphyre]

"The first session will involve bandits"

You can try to subvert the usual "purge the region of bandits" low level adventure by introducing some red herring: the "bandits" are actually Rangers guarding the northern reaches of the Deadman's d**e, that the Breelanders unjustly suspect ("That's haunted land, they say. None but a robber would go there."). The déprédations are the doing of some orcs and half-orcs, agents of Mordor acting in concert with some agents in Bree (maybe Bill Ferney's great-grand-father) and the Rangers are actually keeping them at bay.

(Edit: stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid automatic editor doesn't know what a sheet of rock that formed in a fracture in a pre-existing rock body is called ! )

[tkdco2]

Maybe you can use the OD&D ranger class as well in your campaign. There have been a few Middle-earth campaigns posted here if you need more ideas.

I played in a MERP campaign for a long time. I think I'll start a new one soon.

[Deleted]

Hello guys, thanks for the input, keep 'em coming!

Cooper, how did you imagine using the sage as a wizard or sorcerer? He doesn't have any spells as far as I can see, so that's a bit of a problem.

Porphyre, your idea about the rangers is great, I'm gonna combine it with some spies of Saruman who are searching for ring-lore, assited by mercenaries.

The ranger class might be used, I currently have a Human Fighting-Man and an Elf in the party, but I also promised my brother that he could play a wizard, so it's a balanced party, allthought not very lore-friendly.

Do you guys have any ideas where I could get a good hex-map of Eriador and surroundings? And maybe some tips for building the dungeon the bandits/mercenaries/Southrons will hide in?

Once again, thanks and keep it up!

[cooper]

It depends on what type of game you want to play. If you want a Tolkien themed dungeon/hex crawl, then use vancian wizards. But in ME wizards and sorcerers are wise-men, and in 0d&d a sage in the party would be incredibly helpful.

check out this thread for similar discussion. here

[Deleted]

It isn't much of a hex-crawl, I will slowly pick up the pace and introduce more and more of Sauron's influence, or even that of a lesser sorcerer using a lesser Ring of Power. In short,roleplay heavy,rich plot but rules light, the whole reason I wanted to try OD&D.

However, I read the page of the thread you linked and it seems an interesting take on the problem of wizardry in ME D&D. However, how did you determine the spells derived from lore? Did you invent that?

If the system of utilising sages proves too cumbersome for my players,I will use the Scribe as written up. Scribes can copy lore from books (Gandalf,Elrond abd Saruman spring to mind) and it would limit the spell usage to a minimum.

My personal preference would be that spells would be used as smart distractions, implemented in clever or as a last-ditch emergency power.
Take for example Gandalf blasting the Goblins attacking Thorin & Company with a (magic missile or two, fireball, lightning bolt???),sneaking after the goblins and making the fire in Goblin-Town explode.

Maybe I should allow a staff filled with 50 or so charges of Magc Missile, rechargeable only at a very high cost of gold and XP, or the sacrifice of another artifact. That way brains will overcome the lure of brawn.

Cooper, thanks for the great input,I feel I'm one last post away from deciding on the issue. With a final bit of advice from you I will succeed.


If any of you would like a small session report, I will write one with photos and upload it here this Sunday or Monday.