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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 15, 2013 10:38:59 GMT -6
I thought about making this a poll, but was afraid that I might leave off a key choice and so I decided to just make a discussion thread out of it.
The question: Which is the best Middle-earth based RPG out there?
Disclaimer: Not fair to say “I use system X and modify it.” I’m asking about rules sets actually marketed as “Lord of the Rings” or “Hobbit” or “Middle Earth” games.
My quick review of a few, roughly in order of their publication:
Fantasy Supplement from Chainmail (Guidon/TSR): I hesitated to put this on the list because that opens the door for the “why not play OD&D as a Middle-earth RPG” discussion, but no doubt that the FS had a lot of LotR in mind in its creation. As it stands, Chainmail doesn’t really make a great standalone RPG, however.
War of the Ring (SPI): While not a role playing game, this wargame was cool for a couple of reasons. (1) The map is still my “go to” map of Middle-earth when I throw together a quick one-shot LOTR session. (2) You could still move characters around and have individual battles, etc, much the way a role playing game might be played and major characters had attributes like those found in a typical RPG. There were rules for magic swords and (I think) for casting spells. Any wargame where individual heroes get to do stuff is close to a RPG and certainly worth a mention. Also, the rules for Nazgul randomly searching various regions of Middle-earth for the ringbearer were pretty slick.
MERP (ICE): Middle-earth Role Playing was my first exposure to an actual LotR RPG. I’m not a big fan of percentile-based games or Rolemaster, and MERP is a trimmed down version of RM, but overall it seems to have captured the spirit of Middle-earth pretty well. I kind of like the fact that you can improve skills by having success and character generation seemed to give us characters that fit into a Middle-earth setting pretty well. I didn’t like the spell casting system much -- the spell lists didn’t feel very Middle-earth like to me. The three-volume Lords of Middle-earth series of books are among my favorite RPG supplements because of the depth they supplied to characters from the Silmarillion as well as The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Lord of the Rings Adventure Game (ICE): Sort of a simplified version of MERP, I actually like this one better. It seems to remove a lot of the fiddy stuff that I didn’t like so much in MERP. I know there were some adventures for this game, but I never got around to buying them. I like reading this rulebook more than reading MERP, but never really got to play the game much.
Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game (Games Workshop): A miniatures rules set for armies fighting each other, these rules also statted out the main characters and creatures from Middle-earth so that you could run it as a RPG instead of a battle game. I think that the magic system was a lot better than that of MERP.
Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Game (Decipher): I like the visual nature of this game better than MERP. I enjoyed the LotR movies and it was neat to have movie pictures in the rulebook, and the overall production value was pretty cool. Character creation reminded me too much of a d20-system game, however, with skills and feats (but called different things than skills and feats) and the 2d6 dice mechanic seemed to be “broken” too quickly as characters advanced to higher levels.
Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Adventure Game (Decipher): A simplified version of Decipher’s LOTR game, I liked the fact that we could run through the Mines of Moria several times and still enjoy it. Our group ended up keeping score and kept trying to beat their previous scores, which was fun but after a while felt more like a board game than a roleplaying game.
The One Ring (Cubicle 7): I bought a bunch of this stuff and honestly haven’t played it. I like the focus on the era of the Hobbit rather than that of LotR, and their choice of the Mirkwood region for adventure is a solid one. The maps from this game really sold me and the production value of the rulebooks is a plus, but as I mentioned I haven’t really played the game much.
So ... which game system is your favorite, and why?
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Post by Porphyre on Dec 15, 2013 11:17:58 GMT -6
The only one I really played was MERP. I'm going to agree: the maps and suppléments were gorgeous, but the game experienced was a little too much "generic-fantasy-RPG" with spells lists, flashy magic and the too carefully constructed parties with a warrior, thief (erm, sorry, scout), cleric (erm, I mean, animist), and so on... Besides, the "open roll" D% and charts really were cumbersome. As for the "critical tables" they sure were hilariuos in a dark-humourously way, but were more suited to some gritty universe "à la" WFRPG than Tolkien's world. As for The One Ring, I purchased it but still haven't played it. I'm going to auto-quote: Othewise one of the middle Earth based games I prefer is a "La Terre des Heros", an independant french RPG written by the same author than Mazes & Minotaurs. It is D6 based, rather rules-lite, and leaning on the "narrativist" side of the fence. It exists only in free downloadable PDF form, and can be found here: storygame.free.fr/tdh.htm for the french-speaking crowd. Apart from it's simplicity in terms of character generation and action resolution (those are not the main points), it really captures the spirit of the books. The author also wrote a series of essays about Tolkiens world and conceptions of magic. The only thing that some could see as a "no-no": it follows the "magic is not available for PC" school
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Post by kent on Dec 15, 2013 13:11:44 GMT -6
If I was to run a Middle-earth game I would create my own rules and use the books themselves for background. I don't see much value in using the Middle-earth setting indirectly through a third party if one has read enough of the primary material - The Hobbit, LotR, The Silmarillion and the Children of Hurin.
>>The three-volume Lords of Middle-earth series of books are among my favorite RPG supplements because of the depth they supplied to characters from the Silmarillion as well as The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
I think I read the first of these and was very impressed with the author's sense of scale and power for the ME characters.
I did like MERP and Rolemaster as rulesets though they didn't simulate ME very well.
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Post by cooper on Dec 15, 2013 14:39:46 GMT -6
Since we've covered all of the official games I'm going say my critique is that they all follow a leveling system a la D&D, but I think a better system would be one based on not levels but victory conditions a la Magic RealmElves certainly do not get more powerful as the ages progress. Quite the opposite. When you look at individuals in LOTR they all have what they would consider victory conditions. Strider to reforge Narsil/become king, boromir to save his kingdom, Frodo to go to mount doom, Sam to see Frodo back home safely. A leveless game should be devised and characters should have custom. " end game victory conditions" about which informs their adventures. The conditions in most games "become more powerful" is suitable only for the enemy and as such adventures that reward players with more power aka "levels" is antithetical to a good ME adventure game. An added benefit of (someone?!) making an rpg out of magic realm is that combat is skill based and not random dice rolling--analogous perhaps to the jousting system in chain mail.
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Post by cleverkobold on Dec 15, 2013 14:57:57 GMT -6
I've read MERP but I've only ever played The One Ring. I ran the marsh bell adventure from the book. The game has really board game like mechanics which I enjoyed; but after playing, I asked my players about their overall experience with the system and only one shared my enthusiasm, all of the others were very negative about it. In defense of The One Ring, though, the players who didn't like it were the same players who didn't like Carcosa.
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Post by Falconer on Dec 15, 2013 22:18:38 GMT -6
Abiding by Finarvyn’s rules for this thread, it basically boils down to MERP, CODA, and TOR.
It would have to be MERP, for me, by a mile. I don’t love everything about it, but it has a lot of great things going for it. I like the art and love the wilderness maps. The game system proper is a RPG in the way I understand RPGs — there are mechanics for resolving combat and spells, and the rest is just roleplaying. You obviously can’t beat it for support material. The new lands and characters they add don’t always feel QUITE right, but I give them an A for effort. Ballsy new areas like Ardor, Amon Lind, and Norr-dum, the fact that they gave names and histories and detailed the homelands all Nine Nazgûl and all Seven Dwarven Fathers — you NEED stuff like that in order for a Middle-earth adventure to feel Tolkienish. Tolkien didn’t do safe retread.
CODA has a crunchy d20 feel to it, though if I were looking to build a Middle-earth magic system from the ground up, this would easily be the best basis. Aesthetically, I hate it (movie stills). It also lacks substantial supporting materials.
TOR has several problems. First, it’s too heavy with graphics, and I don’t really care much for the art direction. Second, it feels board-gamey — I’m not sure how to describe it, but there are mechanics for a lot of stuff that IMO can just be roleplayed. Third, it forces you to play “low-level” characters — no Gandalfs or Aragorns here! Finally, it, too, lacks any substantial supporting materials. The whole game so far has been designed around a single module, the The Darkening of Mirkwood, which still has yet to come out. And if you want to play any other place or any other time, you’re SOL.
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Post by Hans E Magnusson on Dec 16, 2013 3:07:57 GMT -6
MERP or Burning Wheel
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Post by kesher on Dec 16, 2013 9:03:17 GMT -6
Yeah, Burning Wheel could do it pretty well, I think...
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 16, 2013 14:44:31 GMT -6
Yeah, Burning Wheel could do it pretty well, I think... But Burning Wheel isn't technically a Middle-earth RPG, right? We'd be looking at some sort of conversion from BW to ME. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but it's a little outside of the parameters I was hoping for. I'm still trying to decide which is the "best ME game" not which game would be best adapted to ME. (I have that one: it's OD&D. )
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Post by kesher on Dec 16, 2013 15:21:13 GMT -6
Got it. Though, honestly, I think you could play BW ME with no real conversion...
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 16, 2013 17:49:46 GMT -6
I'll confess that my experinece with Burning Wheel is minimal -- mostly me thumbing through a copy at the local game store. What makes it particularly ME like?
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Post by Falconer on Dec 16, 2013 20:07:36 GMT -6
Got it. Though, honestly, I think you could play BW ME with no real conversion... The same could surely be said for OD&D.
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Post by cleverkobold on Dec 16, 2013 22:26:44 GMT -6
I'll confess that my experinece with Burning Wheel is minimal -- mostly me thumbing through a copy at the local game store. What makes it particularly ME like? It just seems that Middle Earth is heavily implied to be the default setting of the game. The way character races work is modeled on the exact interpretations of Elves Dwarves Men And Orcs that Tolkien used. I totally agree with you kesher, ME could be easily run with unmodified BW (If only the combat system wasn't so incomprehensible ).
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Post by kesher on Dec 18, 2013 8:57:25 GMT -6
What the Kobold said. I totally forgot to double-check last night, but I'm pretty sure Luke lists The Silmarillion as one of the game's influences. There's also Balrogs & Bagginses, which is awesome, and meant to be used in conjuction with ODD or assorted retroclones.
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Post by tkdco2 on Jul 10, 2016 21:54:41 GMT -6
I ran a MERP game last month. There were only two players, so they took on several PCs. Pretty intense game. The party was able to take on a bunch of orcs led by a half-troll, and managed to destroy a tower, thanks to the barrels of gunpowder (yes, it was in the module) they found. But they took a lot of damage themselves. One character has a broken shoulder; another has fractured ribs. Only the Hobbit and the Elf NPC came out unscathed. I forgot how brutal the combat system can be.
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Post by Vile Traveller on Jul 10, 2016 22:10:15 GMT -6
I know it's not fair according to the thread rules, but I can't resist it. My long-running 4th Age campaign using RuneQuest 2 rules and player characters from the modern era* who arrived in Middle Earth through many and varied means. Examples included* upper-class types on a hunting holiday going through a Mythago Wood-type experience, unemployed youths being chased off the roof of a high-rise car park by a wraith-like figure, anarchists accidentally driving a stolen army supply truck off a cliff, a Time Tunnel accident, etc. There was a need for a steady re-supply of player characters due to the lethality of the RuneQuest system when healing magic was not readily available. Coming up with new and entertaining ways of introducing replacement characters became a major obsession, and several fake campaigns were started only to have the characters unexpectedly transition to Middle Earth. The characters would arrive in Middle Earth with their gear, sometimes only what they had on their person, sometimes including whatever vehicle they were travelling in. Over time they accumulated quite a lot of stuff, although ammunition was always in short supply. I should note that this was played entirely seriously, gonzo though it may sound. We took our fun very seriously in those days. * "Modern" in this context meant the 1980s.
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Post by tkdco2 on Jul 11, 2016 0:32:09 GMT -6
I know of a group who used Runequest for their Middle-earth game. The GM used the MERP modules and converted it. I wasn't part of the group, but one of my friends was.
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artikid
Level 3 Conjurer
Artist for hire
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Post by artikid on Jul 11, 2016 4:31:13 GMT -6
I played both Merp and Role master though they weren't exactly my favorite games, but more or less did their job pretty decently though magic didn't fit Middle Earth very well. Sourcebooks were excellent.
Coda, which I GMed, was IMHO 100% crap. Visually stunning if you liked the movies, but the system fell apart two hours in our first session.
TOR I've read it but not played. It's very flavorful, the art is generally good but not always suits my tastes. The system seems rather simple and we'll designed though a little fiddly. I guess it is a lot easier to run than it is to read. The two things I don't like are the convoluted character creation and the limits your race puts on character development. BTW, you can play with heroic characters (high elves and dunedains) if you have the Rivendell sourcebook.
If I had to chose a game for ME I'd probably go with TOR.
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artikid
Level 3 Conjurer
Artist for hire
Posts: 70
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Post by artikid on Jul 11, 2016 4:39:38 GMT -6
Terre De Heros I contributed some art to but never played it. It's very complete and ultra-light. I think it's a good choice for one-shots or long adventures. I don't think it allows enough growth for longer campaigns, though.
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Post by doublejig2 on Nov 15, 2018 1:11:48 GMT -6
I ran a MERP game last month. There were only two players, so they took on several PCs. Pretty intense game. The party was able to take on a bunch of orcs led by a half-troll, and managed to destroy a tower, thanks to the barrels of gunpowder (yes, it was in the module) they found. But they took a lot of damage themselves. One character has a broken shoulder; another has fractured ribs. Only the Hobbit and the Elf NPC came out unscathed. I forgot how brutal the combat system can be. Agree. Here's an encounter from Ithilien... Out leaped the Leaper! Hewn; a magnificent champion - the battle captain of the entire orc garrison, double swords. Resplendent in trained dark precision, the singularity, he lived to terminate. Gulp,… The surprise was perfect and perfectly times; all party collectively wet their kilts as the phenom arched high above & over top blades descending in murderous execute. All save one. Only the ranger role played by a guy named, Mark Gardner, kept his balance. And, in a single deft unerring counter slash as the dual scimitars whirl cropped just passing his ear, this Leaper, he then felled – ‘unseamed from the knave to chops’ – The perfectly time crit. All turned to that player, his eyes burning us as with cold fire. Rangers and orcs don’t get along.
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Post by tkdco2 on Nov 15, 2018 3:03:10 GMT -6
Another option would be using a universal system like HERO or GURPS. Then you can customize elves, magic, etc. to fit the world rather than vice versa.
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Post by makofan on Nov 15, 2018 8:59:23 GMT -6
I think Pendragon would work great
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Post by hamurai on Dec 7, 2018 2:37:06 GMT -6
You might want to try Adventures in Middle Earth for D&D 5e. I've never played it but read through some books at a friend's, and it seemed pretty decent. Might also give you some ideas for classes in D&D, too, if you wanted a different flavour there.
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Post by tkdco2 on Dec 7, 2018 3:23:27 GMT -6
For a different take on Middle-earth, try Warhammer RPG. Then again, your players may not enjoy playing rat catchers in the sewers of Minas Tirith.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 2:16:42 GMT -6
Another vote for MERP, here. The system is alright for its age, and the source books, while surely taking creative freedoms here and there, remain the gold standard for Tolkienian fanon. - You'll get lost in there, and in a beautiful way.
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Post by hamurai on Dec 8, 2018 2:36:42 GMT -6
For a different take on Middle-earth, try Warhammer RPG. Then again, your players may not enjoy playing rat catchers in the sewers of Minas Tirith. While Warhammer FRPG is a cool game, I'd advise against using it in a Middle Earth setting. It might be fun to explore the darker places and lower lives of Middle Earth, and leave high fantasy behind, but isn't that a little too far away from the intention?
That said, you'd probably have to dump all magic rules, all rules regarding priests, and rewrite many rules for corruption and mutation. You'd end up with a rather generic d100-system. Better to start with a better-suited d100-system right away. Like OpenQuest (free Edit: free basic version, BRP) or Legend ($1, BRP).
The career tables from Warhammer are nice, though. You can use these in any RPG system!
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Post by tkdco2 on Apr 2, 2019 20:21:23 GMT -6
Last month I used AD&D to run a Middle-earth adventure. I finally wrote up the summary; you can find it here.
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Post by scalydemon on Apr 2, 2019 22:46:05 GMT -6
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Post by tkdco2 on Apr 3, 2019 1:34:49 GMT -6
I will need to take a closer look at that system.
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Post by scottenkainen on Apr 5, 2019 10:15:26 GMT -6
I have always wanted to run a Middle Earth campaign. Sometimes I get close to announcing I'm going to do one, but then I think it's going to be a lot of work and go back to Greyhawk, which I already have so much material for.
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