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Post by waysoftheearth on Sept 14, 2013 23:43:33 GMT -6
Somewhat off topic (my apologies) but I thought it worthwhile remarking on the relative advancement of the classes: Clerics rocket through the levels while M-Us reach levels most slowly. We often see this stated, but by the book magic-users achieve name level fastest, requiring about one-half as much XP as do clerics, and about two-fifths as much XP as do fighters. Below level 6 the XP requirements between the classes differ by a few thousand XP either way (yes, a cleric will reach 5th level while a m-u is still 4th level). For level 7 fighters require the most (64k), while clerics and magic-users each require 50k. For level 8 fighters require the most (120k), then clerics (100k), then m-us (75k). For name level fighters require the most (240k), then clerics (presumably 200k), then m-us (100k). Ther's the problem of PC death. Those players whose PC was killed multiple times are going to have less experience points than the PC who survived through many games. True, but it doesn't have to be a problem. There's the Raise Dead and Reincarnate spells to consider, as well as objects granting wishes. Some refs like to award XP to players rather than characters (as stated in M&M p19 -- while it actually says "Experience points are awarded to players" it probably meant "...to characters"). Some refs allow the players to continue on with one of his former PC's henchmen who is somewhat advanced. And so on. There are lots of options.
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Post by jmccann on Sept 15, 2013 11:47:50 GMT -6
Somewhat off topic (my apologies) but I thought it worthwhile remarking on the relative advancement of the classes: Clerics rocket through the levels while M-Us reach levels most slowly. We often see this stated, but by the book magic-users achieve name level fastest, requiring about one-half as much XP as do clerics, and about two-fifths as much XP as do fighters. Below level 6 the XP requirements between the classes differ by a few thousand XP either way (yes, a cleric will reach 5th level while a m-u is still 4th level). For level 7 fighters require the most (64k), while clerics and magic-users each require 50k. For level 8 fighters require the most (120k), then clerics (100k), then m-us (75k). For name level fighters require the most (240k), then clerics (presumably 200k), then m-us (100k). Huh? I don't know where you are getting those figures. M&M, page 16 has clerics at name level at level 8, 100000 XP, fighting-men at name level at level 9, 240000 XP and MUs get their name level at level 11 with 300000 XP. I have 5th and 6th printings and they agree. What printing are you looking at?
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Post by talysman on Sept 15, 2013 16:02:52 GMT -6
He's assuming 9th level = name level for all classes. So, his numbers are correct for 9th level, but clerics actually reach name level at level 8, and M-Us have to wait until level 11, exactly as you noted.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Sept 15, 2013 16:23:44 GMT -6
Sorry, I assumed we were talking about 9th level.
But regardless of where name level occurs, it's still magic-users that rocket through the upper levels while the clerics and fighters require relatively larger sums of XP to reach the same levels.
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Post by jmccann on Sept 15, 2013 17:44:53 GMT -6
Sorry, I assumed we were talking about 9th level. But regardless of where name level occurs, it's still magic-users that rocket through the upper levels while the clerics and fighters require relatively larger sums of XP to reach the same levels. It depends on what tables you adopt for the higher levels since OD&D doesn't specify. An MU won't surpass a fighter in level given equal experience until level 8. So yes, after level 8 MUs advance more rapidly than fighters. With the divine assistance a Patriarch (or EHP) receives, it seems that the cleric is intended to have the easiest time of developing a stronghold, since name level is achieved with just 100000 XP and building costs are halved.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Sept 15, 2013 19:25:28 GMT -6
An MU won't surpass a fighter in level given equal experience until level 8. I'm not sure this is right jmccann, the way I'm seeing it the XP charts are even more favourable to M-Us. E.g., given equal experience, the m-u surpasses the fighter from experience levels above 6. It's like this isn't it?
XP Range m-u:ftr ---------------------------------------- 32k to <35k XP 5:6 (fighter ahead) 35k to <50k XP 6:6 (equal for 15k XP) 50k to <64k XP 7:6 (m-u ahead) 64k to <75k XP 7:7 (equal for 11k XP) 75k to <100k XP 8:7 (m-u ahead) 100k to <120k XP 9:7 (m-u ahead) 120k to <200k XP 9:8 (m-u ahead) 200k to <240k XP 10:8 (m-u ahead) 240k to <300k XP 10:9 (m-u ahead) 300k+ XP 11:9 (m-u ahead)
So, if we're talking up the m-u progression: From 6th level (35k XP) onward he is never behind the fighter. From 7th level (50k XP) onward he is ahead of the fighter, expect between 64k and <75k XP where the fighter is also 7th level. If we're talking up the fighter progression: Up until 6th level (<50k XP) he is never behind the m-u. He is still equal to the m-u for part of 7th level (between 64k and <75k XP), after which the m-u finally gets ahead.
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Post by jmccann on Sept 15, 2013 21:47:22 GMT -6
I misread the table - you're right, the MU overtakes the fighter, and equals the cleric, when the MU reaches level 7.
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Post by Zulgyan on Sept 16, 2013 13:59:35 GMT -6
What waysofearth points out, has me leaning towards adopting a unified XP table, like in OEPT (the 1974 manuscript, I believe the TSR version had an editorial error on the higher leves of the magic user, because all other levels show a unified XP progression).
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