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Post by kent on Aug 20, 2013 22:33:53 GMT -6
I don’t think we want a board where people get “called out” and then snickered at when they leave. You again. Look, stick to comments about gaming. You wouldn't like it if I characterised your contribution here. |
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Post by snorri on Aug 22, 2013 7:14:04 GMT -6
But what would be the point? I think the point would lie somewhere between FFC and PlaGMaDA. As someone interested in the early history of D&D, I'm more interested in learning about what someone was doing with D&D in the 70s than what they've done with it lately. I suspect that interest is not uncommon among fans drawn to an "ODD74" forum.  I agree with droll. You should definitely let us see your archives  |
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Post by scottenkainen on Aug 27, 2013 19:55:01 GMT -6
Great additions, DH! The Greenlands campaign was talked about in Dragon magazine #21 as well and should definitely be included.
The Baldemar setting for the GenCon IX Dungeons reads a lot like Middle Earth ("In the Forest of Lodigren had Lehmnas, Elf-Mage, gladly joined them, and as they journeyed through the Realm of the Dwarves, Fastrid, Dwarvish King, also agreed to aid them"). Do we know Baldemar ever existed outside those tournaments?
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
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Post by rossik on Sept 6, 2018 7:18:38 GMT -6
thanks for the list!
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Post by dragondaddy on Sept 8, 2018 19:31:40 GMT -6
I just talked to Jim Ward on Facebook to see if he could name any more to add. He made an interesting observation that he didn't think many people were creating new campaign settings for OD&D, as they were waiting to see what AD&D would look like first. ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper Eh? That is pretty much all we did from 1977-1981. that is create our own dungeons and campaign settings. Everyone knew AD&D was coming out from the release of the AD&D Monster Manual, and there was the Judges Guild Wilderlands campaign setting, however where we were at in Colorado, no news reached us of TSRs' plans to create any campaign setting until the release of Greyhawk and Mystara in 1980 or so. We were making our own game worlds using graph paper, and then hex paper (which showed up for sale in our local hobby shop) from 1978 on. We made our own game worlds. No one was waiting on TSR to do anything because TSR was interested in making rules and rules supplements and not much interested in making campaign settings or game content. This all changed after the core AD&D books were published after 1980... then TSR started cranking our dungeon modules and supplements for Greyhawk and Mystara, and this was TSR, and of course the RPGA began publishing adventures for gaming conventions that were later converted into modules... The A modules series The Slavelord series, kicked this off in 1980. |
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Post by dragondaddy on Sept 8, 2018 20:00:06 GMT -6
The 1975 Warlock and the 1978 Complete Warlock have very little setting info. I don't have the last two books. Is the 1975 Warlock available anywhere. Also interested in later materials but especially the 1975 stuff. There are a few of us old guys still hanging on. Steve would know. He is the owner of the War House, still one of the best FLGS in SoCal. Former home of the Balboa Game Company, publishers of The Complete Warlock. I heard a story you might still be able to get copies of the Complete Warlock via mail order if you call there and ask real nice like. You might find some other out-of-print goodies as well. The War House 630 S. Willow St. Long Beach, CA 90806 (562) 424-3180 thewarhouselongbeach.com/ |
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Post by dragondaddy on Sept 8, 2018 20:43:46 GMT -6
I have a few more campaign settings to add as well.
from Bard Games The Lexicon - Atlas of the Lost World of Atlantis first published in 1985 making this a 3rd tier publication. It was generic, and designed to be used with any Fantasy Roleplaying System.
You will also want to add Raymond E. Feists Midkemia to your list here of D&D Campaign Settings. Published very late, but played in by a group of gamers very early.
In the late 70's having no fantasy campaign worlds available other than the Judges Guild: Wilderlands and what we created ourselves, we were motivated and added in literary fantasy worlds, and ran D&D games in them.
This included Home in the Guardian of the Flame Novels by Joel Rosenberg (1983)
Sanctuary in Thieves' World by Robert Lynn Asprin (1978)
Tamerthya in Janisaries By Jerry Pournelle (1979). My gaming website and third D&D campaign world is actually named in honor this story and Jerry Pournelle, and it remains one of my favorites.
The Land from The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever by Stephen R. Donaldson (1977)
These were all 0D&D campaign worlds for me. I did a writeups for adding Urviles, Ranhyn, The Giants known as the Rock Brothers, the Cavewights, the Bloodguard, as character classes. I added Diamondraught, and Gildenload, white gold, and them wonderful staffs of power, as well as new spells for my D&D games for the Urviles, the Healers, as well as the Woodcrafters and Stone Melders, and added magic Giant Songs as well.
We added Gor, and Shannara, and Hyboria from Robert E. HOward's Conan... all before 1980-81.
There was a lot of influence from fantasy and science fiction in our early roleplaying games. We took the maps right of of the books, and just did writeups on the fly for character classes, items, objects, equipment, and mounts, and just added them to the game. I remember adding Michael Moorcock's Ice Schooner's to my arctic areas along with some of the critters and characters out of that book specifically.
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Post by scottenkainen on Sept 9, 2018 8:04:01 GMT -6
I just talked to Jim Ward on Facebook to see if he could name any more to add. He made an interesting observation that he didn't think many people were creating new campaign settings for OD&D, as they were waiting to see what AD&D would look like first. ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper Eh? That is pretty much all we did from 1977-1981. that is create our own dungeons and campaign settings. Everyone knew AD&D was coming out from the release of the AD&D Monster Manual, and there was the Judges Guild Wilderlands campaign setting, however where we were at in Colorado, no news reached us of TSRs' plans to create any campaign setting until the release of Greyhawk and Mystara in 1980 or so. We were making our own game worlds using graph paper, and then hex paper (which showed up for sale in our local hobby shop) from 1978 on. We made our own game worlds. No one was waiting on TSR to do anything because TSR was interested in making rules and rules supplements and not much interested in making campaign settings or game content. This all changed after the core AD&D books were published after 1980... then TSR started cranking our dungeon modules and supplements for Greyhawk and Mystara, and this was TSR, and of course the RPGA began publishing adventures for gaming conventions that were later converted into modules... The A modules series The Slavelord series, kicked this off in 1980. That's great, but if you're talking about 1977-1981, then you're agreeing with Jim Ward, because he was talking about people waiting *before* that time period from creating campaign worlds. |
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Post by scottenkainen on Sept 9, 2018 8:05:45 GMT -6
I have a few more campaign settings to add as well. from Bard Games The Lexicon - Atlas of the Lost World of Atlantis first published in 1985 making this a 3rd tier publication. It was generic, and designed to be used with any Fantasy Roleplaying System. You will also want to add Raymond E. Feists Midkemia to your list here of D&D Campaign Settings. Published very late, but played in by a group of gamers very early. In the late 70's having no fantasy campaign worlds available other than the Judges Guild: Wilderlands and what we created ourselves, we were motivated and added in literary fantasy worlds, and ran D&D games in them. This included Home in the Guardian of the Flame Novels by Joel Rosenberg (1983) Sanctuary in Thieves' World by Robert Lynn Asprin (1978) Tamerthya in Janisaries By Jerry Pournelle (1979). My gaming website and third D&D campaign world is actually named in honor this story and Jerry Pournelle, and it remains one of my favorites. The Land from The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever by Stephen R. Donaldson (1977) These were all 0D&D campaign worlds for me. I did a writeups for adding Urviles, Ranhyn, The Giants known as the Rock Brothers, the Cavewights, the Bloodguard, as character classes. I added Diamondraught, and Gildenload, white gold, and them wonderful staffs of power, as well as new spells for my D&D games for the Urviles, the Healers, as well as the Woodcrafters and Stone Melders, and added magic Giant Songs as well. We added Gor, and Shannara, and Hyboria from Robert E. HOward's Conan... all before 1980-81. There was a lot of influence from fantasy and science fiction in our early roleplaying games. We took the maps right of of the books, and just did writeups on the fly for character classes, items, objects, equipment, and mounts, and just added them to the game. I remember adding Michael Moorcock's Ice Schooner's to my arctic areas along with some of the critters and characters out of that book specifically. I wouldn't be including any of those because Bard Games is too modern for that list, and the list was intended only for campaign worlds created specifically for D&D campaigns, not settings in literature that are easily adaptable for use as campaign settings. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 17:56:52 GMT -6
Perhaps a list of everything with a way to re-stack the order based on differing criteria. Just as an example: From what I gather Phil Barker began the creation of his world as the setting for his planned SCi FI novels. All the indications are that it was likely at a young age, 12- 14? Considering he already had languages and world maps to work from, his world would be the oldest setting that is adapted by its original author. I skimmed, but I think others have pointed out that as in the situation with Holmes, it is OD&D that is heavily home ruled. Back to Barker, Tekumal may not look like OD&D, but it's simply home ruled to the extreme, thus people would call it OD&D derived. It always gets interesting when one tries to classify things, as then the big debate becomes about who's ruler are we going to use to measure these things with? My ruler would say that Barker comes in first. He had his setting and he was able to adapt it. At the same time, I have seen many documents that indicate Gygax was developing something himself, as a Fantasy Setting and not a game yet. This was possibly as early as his teen years. Thus Gygax would seem to be second. If you are merely looking at Game Specific Worlds, then I'd say something different. Arneson in 1970-1971, followed by Richard Snider in 1972/73? But there is also the first SCI FI setting being created by John Snider in the fall of 72. Of course, every day something new appears in the historical record, so It's Not Over Till It's Over. And if It hadn't gotten posted here, Dan finally posted about his new find: boggswood.blogspot.com/2018/09/almost-forgotten-published-rpg-ruleset.html |
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Post by increment on Sept 14, 2018 15:18:15 GMT -6
*reads blog* So, it's definitely a cool find - no reason to disagree, from the contents described, that these pages capture some early system of Richard Snider's, a precursor to the "Additions" in the FFC. When it comes to dating them, though, I'm not sure I have a lot of confidence in arguments of the form: "It would have been unnecessary, and therefore seems unlikely, for Richard Snider to have taken the trouble to create and type 6 pages of new, independant rules once D&D's 50+ page playtest rules became available to the Twin Cities gamers circa March of 1973." We've slipped on that banana peel before. Like, if we just now found VanGrasstek's rules with no timestamp, and we used this line of reasoning to date them, we'd arrive at entirely the wrong conclusion. All kinds of circumstances can induce people to do things that seem unnecessary in retrospect. The circumstances here could be compatible with a later timeline. We have good reasons to think Dave Arneson was not in love with GD&D, and that the system additions he was proposing to Gygax did not actually conform to the GD&D system. Even after OD&D was published, Dave continued to criticize it, and to talk about the game system in ways that don't really follow the 1974 game's system. Would it really be so unlikely or surprising if people in Dave's circle were not cribbing faithfully from D&D when they crafted variant rules? Maybe it would be more surprising if an early variant made by that group did conform to D&D. And to the topic of the thread, if we're saying this is not based on OD&D, I'm not sure why it would qualify as an OD&D campaign world... |
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