Gygax 1975 - How To Set Up Your Dungeons & Dragons Campaign

[kent]

Feb 3, 2014 12:49:35 GMT -6 Falconer said:

Kent, how about reformatting the original Thief from the Great Plains Game Players Newsletter #9?

Then how about putting them all together in a single booklet with a table of contents and unified pagination?

That would be sweet. Thanks, buddy!

Well you list a table of contents then and I'll review it. And send me a link to the newsletter.

[grodog]

Jul 23, 2013 22:38:01 GMT -6 grodog said:

Jul 20, 2013 18:24:15 GMT -6 kent said:

It is this that makes us keen to read part 3 I think.

"Those that are careful and/or lucky might also be able to hire a few men-at-arms to accompany them. The latter is particularly true if players pool their funds. In a short time the first dungeon expedition can be made, but that is the subject of Part III of this series, so we will return to it again later."

Gary basically bails on going into a first expedition's details in part 3 (Europa #9, July 1975):

According to my rough outline this is supposed to cover first adventures, including the equipment a party would typically take on first expeditions, what spells low-level magic-users and clerics would have most need for, usage of hired men-at-arms, and some typical accounts of first adventures (the hit-and-run technique being stressed). All that seems rather staid, for any readers who have acted upon the first couple of articles in this series have already gained such knowledge by this time. As I am also very pressed for time at this particular moment, it seemed a good time to more-or-less copy-out without actually doing so at all. Those of you who would enjoy reading an installment pertaining to first adventures in a dungeon should advised your Good Editor, and he will in turn advise me to stop fooling around and get busy. This brings me (quite illogically) to the current overview of D&D.

Gary then goes on from there to discuss flaws in the current presentation/edition of D&D (OD&D 3rd printing brown box, at this time), kibbitzes on the appeal of D&D relative to comments from some other readers/zines, and then talks a bit about War of the Wizards, Barker, and EPT. So, not much in the way of dungeony goodness, unfortunately.

I do wish he had written the first adventures advice article, since it sounds like he would have included some fiction/session summaries as well with it. Oh well....

While digging around for DM-advice reading material for Henry (I often read aloud to him during his bath time), I read him the Europe 6-8 article, and he asked if there was more, so I went back and re-looked that the following issues, and it turns out that Gary did pen a little more about on first dungeon expedition advice, in issue #12-13 (Feb/Mar 1976):

FIRST ADVENTURES IN DUNGEONEERING (by Gary Gygax, USA)

You have been thoroughly hooked on Dungeons & Dragon (D&D), and during the last few days every spare moment has been spent happily preparing several dungeon levels. Great care and thought have been employed to do things just so - and of course you have spent a bit of time laughing fiendishly at the thought of what the hapless dungeoneers will encounter in choice areas! Actually, you certainly don't want your players to get killed, for then they'd miss seeing just how cleverly you've set them up! They don't want to buy the farm either (unless the dice were unkind indeed). Think about that.

A good referee does not wish to deliberately set his players up for certain death in the game - although there are sometimes one or two players who... Anyway, by the same token you should not set out to aid them either. The whole purpose of the game is for the players THEMSELVES to face the challenge presented by the dungeonmaster's maze, to defeat it, or be defeated by it without help or hindrance. If they are clever they should survive and gain great rewards, and if they are stupid they should finish themselves off rapidly. This implies that you have located and numbered monsters carefully, so that the players can usually fight them on even terms, outwit them, or run like hell, i.e., one doesn't put invisible stalkers on the first level. If there are errors they will quickly be spotted on the first adventure, and they should be corrected before the next! In fact that is why I urge that a separate key listing monsters and treasure be kept for each level, rather than writing the information right on the map. With all this in mind, let's move on to the actual game.

Several players are gathered in some secluded place, and you have a good spot set up where they cannot see your dice rolls or map. It is a good plan to give them at least a half an hour to get everything together. Magic-Users will have to decide what spell they are going to take. Everyone will be selecting basic equipment, figuring costs and encumbrance. Although spell selection always takes a bit of time, we have pretty much settled upon the following as 'standard equipment':

dagger, 50' rope, 10' pole, 12 iron spike, small sack, leather back pack, water/win skin, lantern, 3 flasks oil, holy water/vial, quart wine, iron rations.

Your players can simply compute the price of what they set out as standard and save much time and effort. Additional items and encumbrances can then be noted aside as additions to the standard.

Your players will also have to appoint their leader and mapper. At this point everything is all ready for the first descent into the deepest dungeon! So let us move on to a typical account of a first trip, assuming that the players have moved outdoors to a ruined city which is reputed to have dungeons beneath it. [snip]

Another Example of Play follows from here, which I'll transcribe sometime later, since it's not directly relevant to this topic 

Also of note: Grendelwolf has been updating his Gygax Legendarium blog with new content recently: gygaxslegendarium.blogspot.com/ if you haven't checked it out in awhile.

Allan.

Edit: Modfail, I hit edit instead of quote when composing my reply below (the buttons are right next to each other on our menu). However, I believe I have restored Allan's original post in its entirety --- Zenopus

[Zenopus]

Thank you for posting this. Another rediscovered lost gem!

Jul 23, 2013 22:38:01 GMT -6 grodog said:

Although spell selection always takes a bit of time, we have pretty much settled upon the following as 'standard equipment':

dagger, 50' rope, 10' pole, 12 iron spike, small sack, leather back pack, water/win skin, lantern, 3 flasks oil, holy water/vial, quart wine, iron rations.

Your players can simply compute the price of what they set out as standard and save much time and effort. Additional items and encumbrances can then be noted aside as additions to the standard.

This is a great tidbit - a Gygax suggested "Equipment Pack" for OD&D!

OD&D price would be dagger (3) + 50' rope (1) + 12 spikes (1) + small sack (1) + backpack (5) + water/wine skin (1) + lantern (10) + 3 flasks oil (6) + holy water/vial (25) + quart wine (1) + iron rations (15) = 69 gold pieces. Characters rolling 30-60 gold won't be able to afford, but dropping the holy water brings it down to 45. Clerics could switch out the dagger for a mace, for a total of 71 gp. Notably, this pack doesn't include other armor/weapons.

Since Holmes uses the same costs, we could also use this in Holmes without change, except perhaps adding a Tinderbox (3) --- the only "new" equipment in the Holmes price list.

OD&D encumbrance would be dagger (20) + "Miscellaneous Equipment (rope, spikes, bags, etc)" (80) = 100 + armor/additional weapons

[sixdemonbag]

Nice find. Looking forward to reading the example of play when you get around to it.

[fullerton]

I took the set of standard adventuring gear to be the set of stuff the party splits the cost of (and distributes amongst themselves); not as something *every* character has.

But very cool find! I'm off to see whether that Europa PDF is available so I can read the play summary!

[Malchor]

Jul 23, 2013 22:38:01 GMT -6 grodog said:

Gary basically bails on going into a first expedition's details in part 3 (Europa #9, July 1975):

I tracked down a copy of Europa #9, July 1975, but my request was not specific enough for Interlibrary Loans. 

I had Europa #9, July 1975, author Gary Gygax, title Part III of a Series by Gary Gygax (USA). But page count and page numbers unknown. 

Can anyone help fill in the specifics?

Many thanks in advance.

[Zenopus]

*bump*

I was just reminded of this thread as I had linked to it here: Gygax's D&D Revision Plans 1977

These are plans for the D&D revision that Gygax originally submitted to Europa #15-17 (January 1977), as confirmed by grodog, and then were later sent into Alarums & Excursions #21 (April 1977) by someone else, which is where I found them.

Oct 5, 2018 20:24:06 GMT -6 grodog said:

Another Example of Play follows from here, which I'll transcribe sometime later, since it's not directly relevant to this topic 

grodog I'd love to see that Example of Play if you have a chance now to transcribe it. I think it would be fine to include in this thread.

[grodog]

Oct 5, 2018 20:24:06 GMT -6 grodog said:

Edit: Modfail, I hit edit instead of quote when composing my reply below (the buttons are right next to each other on our menu). However, I believe I have restored Allan's original post in its entirety --- Zenopus

I fixed Grendelwulf's blog hyperlink, Zach =)

Allan.

[grodog]

Aug 5, 2019 16:56:12 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

*bump*

I was just reminded of this thread as I had linked to it here: Gygax's D&D Revision Plans 1977

These are plans for the D&D revision that Gygax originally submitted to Europa #15-17 (January 1977), as confirmed by grodog, and then were later sent into Alarums & Excursions #21 (April 1977) by someone else, which is where I found them.

Oct 5, 2018 20:24:06 GMT -6 grodog said:

Another Example of Play follows from here, which I'll transcribe sometime later, since it's not directly relevant to this topic 

grodog I'd love to see that Example of Play if you have a chance now to transcribe it. I think it would be fine to include in this thread.

Here it is, Zach:

Your players will also have to appoint their leader and mapper. At this point everything is all ready for the first descent into the deepest dungeons! So let us move on to a typical account of a first trip, assuming that the players have moved outdoors to a ruined city which is reputed to have dungeons beneath it. The ‘dungeonmaster’ will be indicated as ‘D’, the party of the players as ‘P’.

D: “You have found the ruins of the deserted city of Detresed. You can see that there are streets going northeast, northwest, and north. Most of the ruins are nondescripts, but due north you note that there are several larger structures, one or two of which are in less disrepair than the others.”

After going northwards a few hundred feet, and getting complete descriptions of the ruined edifices visible to them, the party selects a ruined structure which appears to have been a temple, and they enter cautiously. After thorough exploration they decide to ignore a set of steps they have located, for a vast stone idol hid a narrow shaft penetrating very deep beneath the temple. The latter would not normally have been located, but careful checking and perseverance found a secret door in the idol’s back. The party descends some 40’ into a large, circular arched chamber. It is 30’ in diameter and has eight doors.

P: “There is no sense debating, let’s take the door to the west, for it seemed that there were more ruins above in that direction than in any other direction. One member of the party will carefully try the door to see if it will open normally. All others will have their weapons drawn and ready in case there is someone or something behind it!”

D: “Door opens normally (without ANY sound, in fact), and beyond you see a 10’ wide corridor going north.”

P: “The door didn’t make ANY noise when we opened it?! Hmmmm. Examine the hinges.”

D: “They were oiled – greased lock.”

P: “Oh, oh! Watch out! These doors are USED. Helmets off, everyone. Listen at all of the other doors.”

After some time spent so listening, noise is detected behind the door to the east and that to the southeast. And meanwhile the dungeonmaster has checked, but the party is lucky and no wandering monster has happened along during the interim. The brave adventurers ready themselves, creep close to the eastern door, and ready an attack. Two of the six will watch the southeast, one will open the east door, and the three with bows will have their weapons ready as the door is flung wide.

P: “We are set. Open the door!”

D: “You see, ahh ((die roll)) 4 hobgoblins attending some sort of cleric. They are dressed in black and blood red garments. Now, did you surprise them? ((die roll of 3)) NO! Initiative check – you are at plus 1 because you prepared. ((The check shows that the party is able to attack before the cleric and his servitors will be able to react at all.)) The enemy is approximately 15’ away, by the by.”

P: “Loose arrows, drop bows, draw swords, and charge. If I can manage to cast a Sleep Spell during all this I’ll do so, but I will be careful not to cast it so as to include our men in its effect. The two watching the other door will maintain position.”

The dungeonmaster now checks to see which arrows score hits, whom the hits are scored upon, and how much damage is done. Simultaneously, he determines if the magic-user who opened the door will be able to get a spell prepared and cast – about equal odd for and against due to preparation and positioning. It is successful, and 4 of the hobgoblins fall to the floor snoring. The cleric was not named as a specific target, and as he is a 4th level (Evil Priest) the general area spell doesn’t affect him. He shouts loudly, points, and an attack is struck by a Light Wound Spell. Undaunted they press on, eager to close with the cleric and slay him. The next melee turn is spent by the party closing, with the cleric backing and raising his finger to deliver another Light Wound. Just as the party is about to hack and slew this evil opponent they hear shouts from the chamber without: “Beware! HOBGOBLINS! There are more who serve this priest…”

P: “Two of the fighters will finish the cleric off as quickly as possible. I will go to the door we just entered, with the other fighter, to help the rest of the party, but while he goes directly to aid them, I’ll stop and kill the sleeping hobgoblins here.”

A general melee now ensues in the chamber and in the room where the cleric fights on. Seeing that the party’s two fighters and cleric are seemingly holding their own against 6 hobgoblins, the magic-user creeps up behind the badly wounded Evil Priest and delivers the ‘Coup de grâce’. This frees them all for immediate attack upon the remaining hobgoblins. Good thing, too! One fighter and the cleric are down, and there are three hobgoblins attacking the remaining man. After a long round of attacks and counters the party finally wins, although only three remain alive – the magic-user leading it, an elven fighter, and a fighting man.

P: “Well, let’s quickly check the bodies and the rooms for any treasure. The priest’s quarters will be searched especially well by the elf.”

D: “You find some silver pieces in the pockets of the hobgoblins ((a dice roll determines how many for each)), and in the robes of the cleric you find a pouch with 100 gold pieces. Nothing else is found.”

P: “Let’s all go check out that room some more… I am not satisfied that we’ve located everything. But to be on the safe side, let’s spike the door shut good and tight, and the fighter will keep an eye on it also just in case.”

Several turns are spent in this manner, and finally a small trap door in the floor is discovered. It is lifted to reveal a hidden trove – an alabaster idol worth not less than 500 gold pieces. As the party is in bad shape, they elect to return immediately to the surface. Their comrades are buried, their own wound treated, and before passing on the idol to some merchant, they minutely examine it. It too reveals a small magical compartment, and after several days the magic-user manages to open it. Therein lies a map to a temple on the 4th level – a place veritably stuffed with treasure, but strongly guarded by many hobgoblins and powerful men and monsters. Better still, there are some very valuable gems hidden in the compartment too! When the survivors share the wealth and experience, they are all well-pleased and rewarded, all going up a level. Time now for them to seek some powerful allies and many met-at-arms for a special expedition to that temple…

The above may not be exactly typical, for many first adventures are spent trying to figure out where the party is, for mapping CAN be a difficult task until you get the hang of it. Also, many first-timers take on monsters too powerful for them, or don’t use ‘hit-and-run’ tactics as they should. Again, I have had first time parties who had adventures just about like the one above.

This should enable you to ready your dungeons. How about a questions and comments section from all of you next time? And I’ll try to answer in the next…

A few quick notes:

- notice Gary playing with the backward-pun city name ("deserted" reversed); Rob also used this technique in his games (see Bottle City for examples), and both also used puns, anagrams, and other word play regularly (see www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_anagrams.html for further examples)
- the hobgoblins wear red and black, which corresponds with their description in the MM---"Hobgoblins favor bright, bloody colors and black leather."; this also matches the red shields of the Hobgoblins of the Pomarj heraldy from the Greyhawk folio and boxed set
- I've not mapped the described dungeon area, but the presence of the large idol (reminiscent of the PHB cover, or the Enigma of Greyhawk, perhaps), and an 8 door-room accessed via secret stairway is a pretty good indicator---perhaps it can be found in the Origins 1975 map, or in one of the Castle Greyhawk maps if we're lucky! =)

Enjoy! =)

Allan.

[grodog]

Dec 22, 2018 11:41:11 GMT -6 Malchor said:

Jul 23, 2013 22:38:01 GMT -6 grodog said:

Gary basically bails on going into a first expedition's details in part 3 (Europa #9, July 1975):

I tracked down a copy of Europa #9, July 1975, but my request was not specific enough for Interlibrary Loans. 

I had Europa #9, July 1975, author Gary Gygax, title Part III of a Series by Gary Gygax (USA). But page count and page numbers unknown. 

Can anyone help fill in the specifics?

Page count = 42
EGG relevant pages = 5-7

Europa's editor was Walter Luc Haas, which should help too.

Allan.

[Zenopus]

Aug 7, 2019 21:39:49 GMT -6 grodog said:

Here it is, Zach:

* * *

A few quick notes:

- notice Gary playing with the backward-pun city name ("deserted" reversed); Rob also used this technique in his games (see Bottle City for examples), and both also used puns, anagrams, and other word play regularly (see www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_anagrams.html for further examples)
- the hobgoblins wear red and black, which corresponds with their description in the MM---"Hobgoblins favor bright, bloody colors and black leather."; this also matches the red shields of the Hobgoblins of the Pomarj heraldy from the Greyhawk folio and boxed set
- I've not mapped the described dungeon area, but the presence of the large idol (reminiscent of the PHB cover, or the Enigma of Greyhawk, perhaps), and an 8 door-room accessed via secret stairway is a pretty good indicator---perhaps it can be found in the Origins 1975 map, or in one of the Castle Greyhawk maps if we're lucky! =)

Wow, thank you, Allan; that's fantastic, much longer than I was expecting!

I love the "Detresed" name-pun! The ruined city brings to mind the never released Outdoor Geomorphs Set Three: Ruins. And the "lost, ruined city of the Old Suloise" that "is said to be hidden somewhere in the Suss forest..." (WoG folio, pg 26), where Gord & company later explore a "three-tiered structure ... a large building, probably a temple of some sort" (Artifact of Evil).

The circular 8-door room is a bit like the octagonal entrance room in the Delving Deeper level from HoMP, but with twice as many exits. He used a similar shaped room in Castle Greyhawk and in the Dungeon Geomorphs (where the room is circular); see the post for images.

It's interesting to see an example of an OD&D dungeon door that is *not* stuck because it is regular use. This edges away from the OD&D idea that all dungeon doors open for monsters but not players.

That listening at doors requires helmets to be off is not mentioned in OD&D Vol 3, but does appear later in the DMG.

+1 to initiative for "being prepared" is an interesting addition. The OD&D FAQ that first describes initiative mentions giving a bonus for dexterity, but not preparations.

The "enemy" is only 15' away, but the party has spend a "melee turn" (presumably meaning melee round) closing with the priest, who is "backing" and casting.

The note "4th level (Evil Priest)" is consistent with the level titles for Anti-Clerics in OD&D Vol 1, page 34 or 35 (printing dependent).

Gygax also used an evil cleric (3rd level) plus hobgoblins in the DMG sample dungeon (areas 35-37 but only mentioned in the Wandering Monster table for the Crypt Areas). There's also the evil Adept (2nd level) with a Gnoll guard on the first level of the Greyhawk dungeon, who has one spell: Cause Light Wounds, much like the priest here. And of course Lareth (5th level) with his Gnolls, Bugbears and Ogre.

The priest's method of casting Light Wounds from a distance is very interesting & quite different than Cause Light Wounds in AD&D, which requires touch. The pointing is reminiscent of "Finger of Death"; it makes them seem like low/high level versions of the same power. His spell also doesn't require the "one full turn" of Men & Magic for Cure Light Wounds, although that may actually just be inconsistent terminology for "one full round".

The red and black for the hobgoblins (here & in the MM) is a great detail. The Evil Priest in B2 has his room decorated in the same colors: "a red carpet, furniture of black wood with velvet upholstery of scarlet, and a large bed covered with silken covers of black and red cushions and pillows"!

B2 has two alabaster statues. One of alabaster & gold (3000 gp) in the Loan Bank in the Keep, and a 30-lb one of alabaster & ivory (200 gp) in the Bugbear Chieftain's Room. This later one is also hidden (in a chest on a hidden high ledge), but no secret magical compartments, though!

The "map to a temple on the 4th level – a place veritably stuffed with treasure, but strongly guarded by many hobgoblins and powerful men and monsters" is a good example of OD&D Treasure Map.

[Malchor]

Aug 7, 2019 21:42:57 GMT -6 grodog said:

Dec 22, 2018 11:41:11 GMT -6 Malchor said:

I tracked down a copy of Europa #9, July 1975, but my request was not specific enough for Interlibrary Loans. 

I had Europa #9, July 1975, author Gary Gygax, title Part III of a Series by Gary Gygax (USA). But page count and page numbers unknown. 

Can anyone help fill in the specifics?

Page count = 42
EGG relevant pages = 5-7

Europa's editor was Walter Luc Haas, which should help too.

Allan.

Thank you Allan.

I had re-requested it a few months back and was able to get scans from an archive. In a couple of months, I'll get to hold a few of these in my hands.

[angantyr]

Aug 8, 2019 18:58:44 GMT -6 Malchor said:

Aug 7, 2019 21:42:57 GMT -6 grodog said:

Page count = 42
EGG relevant pages = 5-7

Europa's editor was Walter Luc Haas, which should help too.

Allan.

Thank you Allan.

I had re-requested it a few months back and was able to get scans from an archive. In a couple of months, I'll get to hold a few of these in my hands.

Any updates on getting this issue of Europa?

[Zenopus]

I made a blog post about "First Adventures in Dungeoneering" on my blog today for Gary Gygax Day 2020:

zenopusarchives.blogspot.com/2020/07/first-adventures-in-dungeoneering-1976.html

[asaki]

Nice I've been waiting to read the rest of that one.

edit: Or maybe not? Looks like I already have the whole thing saved

[grodog]

Jul 27, 2020 15:30:52 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

I made a blog post about "First Adventures in Dungeoneering" on my blog today for Gary Gygax Day 2020:

zenopusarchives.blogspot.com/2020/07/first-adventures-in-dungeoneering-1976.html

Nice work, as always, Zach!

Allan.

[grodog]

Has anyone, by chance, mapped out this example of play yet?

Allan.

[boggit]

One cannot seem to access the PDFs anymore. Could anyone send the AD&D formatted one to me?

[tdenmark]

I cast "RESURRECT THREAD!"

Has anyone ever found parts I and III?

[Zenopus]

Yes! See this thread where the texts are posted:

odd74.proboards.com/thread/14817/gygax-articles-before-od-blackmoor