|
|
Post by Finarvyn on May 12, 2013 5:44:52 GMT -6
This series of posts really was fantastic. One of the best things I've read about D&D in ages. I agree. It certainly gets me thinking about the early days again! ;D |
|
randyb
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 92
|
Post by randyb on May 12, 2013 6:19:03 GMT -6
Great stuff!
One minor quibble: the later section of Vol 3, entitled "Special Suggestions for Monsters in Naval Adventures", notes that Giant Squid and Giant Octopi are "Found only in salt water...". The obvious reconciliation is to re-roll on the "Swimmer" table if either creature is rolled for in a River or Swamp.
|
|
|
|
Post by aldarron on May 12, 2013 7:48:03 GMT -6
.... I was interested in what it would look like if we treated the OS map as a setting in its own right, since it's pretty big if you measure it. What I really liked was how different it felt from, say, the published World of Greyhawk as I figured out exactly how things should look extrapolated from the charts. Different from Greyhawk perhaps, but not so different from the wilds of Blackmoor. The main differences would seem to be no Blackmoor Castle lords coming out and demanding Jousts of passersby, and the lack of Burroughs martains in the deserts. Although, on that score the later DA series of modules does have "Sand Folk" riding the six legged "Camarilla" - matians on thoats for all intents and purposes. <shrug> In fact, having just read through your excellent pdf (exalt for that) I'm struck by how nearly perfectly it describes the Blackmoor setting. Remarkable really. **EDIT: expanded a bit on this in a 'blogpost here link |
|
|
|
Post by owlorbs on May 13, 2013 11:09:55 GMT -6
That pdf was a fun read. Thank you and exalt.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 5:23:14 GMT -6
I don't recall any cases where he used the OS map at all. I'm pretty sure that was a Dave thing. Gary absolutely used the Outdoor Survival map for wilderness adventures. Greyhawk was near the center of the left edge, I don't have the map in front of me. |
|
|
|
Post by geoffrey on Dec 18, 2014 14:27:39 GMT -6
Gary absolutely used the Outdoor Survival map for wilderness adventures. Greyhawk was near the center of the left edge, I don't have the map in front of me. Interesting. |
|
|
|
Post by murquhart72 on Jul 21, 2017 16:58:39 GMT -6
I don't recall any cases where he used the OS map at all. I'm pretty sure that was a Dave thing. Gary absolutely used the Outdoor Survival map for wilderness adventures. Greyhawk was near the center of the left edge, I don't have the map in front of me. Interesting to note that in the "Implied Setting" document, the city in question was assumed to be the best, most cosmopolitan and successful city on the map, given it's location and the surrounding area. |
|
|
|
Post by howandwhy99 on Jul 21, 2017 22:02:26 GMT -6
I seem to recall stories of dungeon crawls under the ruins of castle greyhawk. And explorations into the wilds beyond it and the city. I assume wandering monster tables were used to populate the area with a variety of foul beasts.
Plus, wandering the wilds in GH was supposed to be deadlier than entering the dungeons! (early one, of course). The Wilds are a kind of "delve" in themselves where you must watch out for getting lost, cover your food and water, be careful of dehydration, starvation, and numerous other challenges in addition. Perfect for the Outdoor Survival game! (one of my favorite parts of early D&D)
Imagine if you, say, went to an outpost at the very edge of civilization and, while exploring the wilds beyond, ran across some fetid ravine pocked with cave homes of humanoids?
|
|
|
|
Post by rustic313 on Oct 7, 2020 14:06:07 GMT -6
One note I just thought of...
The tables show that all stronghold owners are neutral or chaotic, with the exception of a handful of Lawful Patriarchs.
Implications:
- Lawful characters don't start strongholds because they choose not to
- Lawful characters don't start strongholds because they don't make it to sufficient level
- Lawful characters who start strongholds typically become corrupt and fall to selfish neutrality or even chaos
- Lawful characters who start strongholds are replaced with selfish neutrals within a generation
- Lawful characters who start strongholds are deposed or abdicate (perhaps to be replaced by a monster lair in the ruins?)
- Lawful characters who start strongholds turn over their realms to Lawful Clerics
This has some implications for the end game, I think, and the ultimate goals of Lawful characters at least. And it has a sort of symmetry in that the conditions that would lead a Lawful to no longer be present (deposed, abdicated, corruption, etc) are exactly those that would create a good environment for a new first level character eager to find their fortune in the borderlands.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2020 14:27:30 GMT -6
That is a fascinating post. You've succinctly described the original published D&D setting, and you're right: It is very different than Greyhawk or any of the traditional "vanilla" settings. I'd love to be a player in that. Agree; lovely synopsis. |
|
|
|
Post by howandwhy99 on Oct 7, 2020 18:10:23 GMT -6
The tables show that all stronghold owners are neutral or chaotic, with the exception of a handful of Lawful Patriarchs. My understanding is, all of civilization is Lawful. Wandering in the wilderness in characters land upon lone communities which tend to be incapable of allying with lawful civilization. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Baron on Oct 8, 2020 9:41:18 GMT -6
One note I just thought of... The tables show that all stronghold owners are neutral or chaotic, with the exception of a handful of Lawful Patriarchs. My reading of the text is that it is describing disposition and not alignment - a chaos aligned lord might be neutral in disposition towards player characters while a lawful or neutrally aligned lord might be antagonistic in disposition. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2020 16:03:19 GMT -6
I've kept and read my printout of the pdf about this implied setting many times. While I was weaned in the land of Mystara and still favor the Known World for long form character driven campaigns, this gonzo pulp fiction inspired OD&D world is perfect for the dungeon and hex crawl campaigns the 3lbb revolve around.
|
|
|
|
Post by rustic313 on Oct 28, 2020 15:47:18 GMT -6
"Patriarchs are always Lawful, and Evil High Priests are always Chaotic. All other castle inhabitants will be either hostile to the adventurers (die 1-3) or neutral (die 4-6)."
I read this as saying that fighting men and wizard NPCs were either neutral in alignment, or opposite the party (hostile). Most parties are probably neutral tending to law so that implies the NPCs should tend heavily towards chaotic.
I would imagine that a reaction roll on 2d6 would still be in order. If we read this as a statement on disposition and not alignment then (1) there is no table or method to determine alignment of these important NPCs and (2) the reaction roll mechanic (and thus charisma) has no impact on some of the more important NPC encounters in the game.
|
|
|
|
Post by linebeck on Oct 28, 2020 19:15:21 GMT -6
"Patriarchs are always Lawful, and Evil High Priests are always Chaotic. All other castle inhabitants will be either hostile to the adventurers (die 1-3) or neutral (die 4-6)." I read this as saying that fighting men and wizard NPCs were either neutral in alignment, or opposite the party (hostile). Most parties are probably neutral tending to law so that implies the NPCs should tend heavily towards chaotic. I would imagine that a reaction roll on 2d6 would still be in order. If we read this as a statement on disposition and not alignment then (1) there is no table or method to determine alignment of these important NPCs and (2) the reaction roll mechanic (and thus charisma) has no impact on some of the more important NPC encounters in the game. Maybe there are armies of law and the armies of chaos and then there are adventures who may be tangentially aligned with either but really are only actually concerned about gathering treasure to improve their xp. Players are thus outside the alignment dichotomy. As an aside, when I explained to my wife that the point of the game was to obtain treasure it was like a lightbulb went off in her head. |
|
|
|
Post by dicebro on Nov 1, 2020 6:44:00 GMT -6
I would add that the very first strategic review mag advertises 0e as a “Swords and Sorcery Wargame”
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2020 8:55:25 GMT -6
I would add that the very first strategic review mag advertises 0e as a “Swords and Sorcery Wargame” Pffft. Despite the fact it's clearly called a Fantastic Medieval Wargame on the cover. Get it together, Gary!  |
|
|
|
Post by dicebro on Nov 1, 2020 12:39:46 GMT -6
I would add that the very first strategic review mag advertises 0e as a “Swords and Sorcery Wargame” Pffft. Despite the fact it's clearly called a Fantastic Medieval Wargame on the cover. Get it together, Gary! It’s almost as if he was trying to sell it to someone! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2020 17:54:19 GMT -6
Pffft. Despite the fact it's clearly called a Fantastic Medieval Wargame on the cover. Get it together, Gary! It’s almost as if he was trying to sell it to someone! Never would he ever! It's a holy tome, I tell ya. Unassailable! Of course, this is all silliness on my part. I don't think you can actually accurately define the implied genre of OD&D at all. It's just the most eclectic kitchen sink of influences. A beautiful mosaic. |
|
|
|
Post by dicebro on Nov 2, 2020 8:20:50 GMT -6
It’s almost as if he was trying to sell it to someone! Never would he ever! It's a holy tome, I tell ya. Unassailable! Of course, this is all silliness on my part. I don't think you can actually accurately define the implied genre of OD&D at all. It's just the most eclectic kitchen sink of influences. A beautiful mosaic. A toolbox for dreamers. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2020 14:21:13 GMT -6
Never would he ever! It's a holy tome, I tell ya. Unassailable! Of course, this is all silliness on my part. I don't think you can actually accurately define the implied genre of OD&D at all. It's just the most eclectic kitchen sink of influences. A beautiful mosaic. A toolbox for dreamers. Pandora's box. |
|
