Chaotic Turn Undead

[alcyone]

Maybe this is a common house rule, but it just came to me today. If a Chaotic cleric wants to turn undead, they can. They roll on the chart just like a Lawful cleric. However, instead of the undead running away, they just stay away from the Chaotic cleric.

This reinforces the selfishness of the alignment; as the cleric just stands by and watches the rest of the party get killed while they are spared. The cleric may attack the undead also, but then they stop being turned.

Of course, I guess turning could work that way for everyone since it's not very well-defined what actually occurs; the undead are just "turned away".

[talysman]

It's certainly a viable house rule. DD of course forbids turning undead because the original books forbids it, but AD&D changed this to "turn or command" for evil clerics.

My own rule is that Chaotics by default can't turn undead, but they can make a pact with a supernatural entity (demon, usually) in exchange for some kind of power equivalent to turn undead. A pact with Orcus would give the AD&D "command undead" power, a pact with Juiblex (or whatever that name is) would give "turn/command slimes and oozes", etc.

[waysoftheearth]

It's an interesting house rule, for sure

It's also worthwhile noting that the anti-cleric already has an advantage that the cleric does not: he can use the anti-spells with impunity!

This means his spell repertoire includes (in addition to the regular cleric spells):

(1) Cause Light Wounds,
(1) Obscure Evil,
(1) Protection from Good,
(1) Cause Fear,
(2) Bane,
(2) Obscure Alignment,
(3) Animate Dead,
(3) Cause Serious Wounds,
(4) Cause Critical Wounds,
(4) Poison,
(5) Dispel Good,
(5) Finger of Death

There's a reasonable prospect that a referee may also introduce the 2nd level cleric spell "Cure Moderate Wounds" as a house rule, in which case the anti-cleric would also get the reverse: "Cause Moderate Wounds".

[Zenopus]

It could be argued that the original rules limited Chaotic clerics to only the reversed spells:

"There are Anti-Clerics (listed below) who have similar powers to Clerics. Those Clerical spells underlined on the table for Cleric Spells have a reverse effect, all others functioning as noted."

This could be read as indicating that these spells, when cast by an Anti-Cleric, always have the reverse power. No healing for Chaotics!

[Deleted]

Mar 16, 2013 14:34:58 GMT -6 alcyone said:

Maybe this is a common house rule, but it just came to me today. If a Chaotic cleric wants to turn undead, they can.

I don't know about "common" ... I've never paid much attention to how other referees run their campaigns. That isn't how I do it but I claim no special insight on fun^TM.

I will say that, if the ruling works at your table, then it is a good ruling.

[geoffrey]

Mar 16, 2013 19:42:17 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

It could be argued that the original rules limited Chaotic clerics to only the reversed spells:

"There are Anti-Clerics (listed below) who have similar powers to Clerics. Those Clerical spells underlined on the table for Cleric Spells have a reverse effect, all others functioning as noted."

This could be read as indicating that these spells, when cast by an Anti-Cleric, always have the reverse power. No healing for Chaotics!

That's how I like to treat anti-clerics. While clerics have divine powers, anti-clerics have diabolical powers.

So what do anti-clerics get in exchange for not having turning powers? They get the sort of sacrifices pictured on the cover of Eldritch Wizardry. ;D

[waysoftheearth]

Mar 16, 2013 19:42:17 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

It could be argued that the original rules limited Chaotic clerics to only the reversed spells:

Yes, that's a reasonable interpretation.

On the other hand, an expanded spell list is a neat compensation for the anti-cleric's lack of undead turning. How often have we seen a diabolical ritual to "raise dead" occur in fiction? Or the "evil high priest" type ignoring or curing wounds to himself that would be fatal to ordinary men?

Also, as he deals frequently with evil sorts in his daily work the anti-cleric would have as much use for protection from evil as for protection from good!