Not the "Pattern" from Nine Princes in Amber

[rjkuntz]

There is a topic at DF which caught my interest, especially a part noted by Deathsdj, there, which I quote here:

Deathsdj noted: "As a player I like to talk to NPCs and nose around town almost like its a dungeon, looking for whatever is interesting and interacting with the populace. The last AD&D group I was a player in didn't really do that. The town was an abstract place with no map, basically an equipment list and a magic items shop that bought and sold everything."


No surprise to me. This is the patterning set up since the advent of the pre-made adventure. Go into dungeon, play scenario, return to surface. Multiply this patterning by years of doing so. Now, throw something abstract ("different") at the minimized conceptual range of said group and they cannot grasp it as relevant compared to past repeated circumstances; or they cannot conceive of doing something and thus "do not prefer to play that way."

IOW, "You are what you consume, thus you gravitate to what you are."

This of course continues to feed the modeled experience and the cycle becomes endless. One need only look around for the examples of this and the talk which transpires from it, and exclusively. But move outside the box and attempt to test "your own" imaginative ranges, then you get cropped due to these circumstances like Deathsdj experience. Or, perhaps ignored en total, when one pushes past the norm. I refer to another forum post with the latter--a brilliant post just brimming with out of the box creation--and on these very boards, that went uncommented on for 2 weeks until I finally did so.

Referring Links:

www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=60213&start=30

odd74.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=scifigeneral&action=display&thread=8425

[mgtremaine]

Certainly a good topic with the potential to get players to think about what they really want or enjoy when playing. I've always seen World Building as a consequence of the game. Sure it can come first but organically it is going to come every time someone asks a question you don;t have the answer to, or every time you, the creator, sit down to plan the next game. A note here, and a scribble there, look ma I'm World Building.

One thing that I think should be stressed is the DM is a person and has the right to be WRONG. Mistakes happen, trains of thought lead to bad ends sometime. But as long as everyone is having fun who cares. Embrace making mistakes and correct them as needed. I'm reminded how many times Glorantha had mythological corrections. Some people might shake there heads, and snicker, but I'm reminded more of Edison and his famous

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

-Mike

[rjkuntz]

Feb 27, 2013 11:57:19 GMT -6 mgtremaine said:

Certainly a good topic with the potential to get players to think about what they really want or enjoy when playing. I've always seen World Building as a consequence of the game. Sure it can come first but organically it is going to come every time someone asks a question you don;t have the answer to, or every time you, the creator, sit down to plan the next game. A note here, and scribble there, look ma I'm World Building.

One thing that I think should be stressed is the DM is a person and has the right to be WRONG. Mistakes happen, trains of thought lead to bad ends sometime. But as long as everyone is having fun who cares. Embrace making mistakes and correct them as needed. I reminded how many times Glorantha had mythological corrections. Some people might shake there heads, and snicker, but I'm reminded more of Edison and his famous

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

-Mike

Good points, as always.

The Edison quote fits hand to glove with Sir Ken Robinson's, "If we are not prepared to make mistakes then we will never create anything original." (paraphrase)

My concern is that the hobby will lose its vitality if there are no differences, as is true with all evolutionary processes. I do not refer to the differences in the current templates, btw, which are just the superficial qualities of the RPG concept as laid atop it, but the "Go To" model itself that has not varied in 35 years. Only differences ensure growth in all systems, organic or inorganic, and if these stop, so stops the wheel of growth and inertia sets in.

[rjkuntz]

What is is more "interesting" is that both of these imaginative, curious and creative fellows "edited" their creative sides in posting and commenting, thusly:

Deathsdj summed up the dissonance as "him being a jaded old-timer..." (paraphrase)

Garham's is more poignant, as he refers to his upcoming post as "Idiotic".

What type of social pressure, inferred or otherwise, could produce similar reactions about one's "worth" in such matters which are supposedly creatively open? This is the insidious side to sameness/grouping and as opposed to stepping outside the norm, the box, which sometimes is projected/accomplished along with a self-editing component, creating an up front stigmatism of unworthiness. "Must not be too different..."

I now have an intense interest to speak with Deathsdj and Garham if for no other reason than to encourage them in no withheld terms. This has also inspired some particulars I am now departing on with my researching and writing on the matter and points related.

[scalydemon]

Cool thread. Sometimes plot hooks or happenings in Towns or Cities can be hard to think up. Wonder if anyone has done up a table related to this? Somethings scandalous or of local political intrigue, or a major theft or assasination?

Sorry I'm on a bit of a table kick lately

[Deleted]

Feb 27, 2013 19:42:55 GMT -6 scalydemon said:

Cool thread. Sometimes plot hooks or happenings in Towns or Cities can be hard to think up. Wonder if anyone has done up a table related to this? Somethings scandalous or of local political intrigue, or a major theft or assasination?

Sorry I'm on a bit of a table kick lately

Table in Oriental Adventures (original); Pathfinder Kingmaker AP, #2, Rivers Run Red; Rules Cyclopedia in the chapter on ruling a domain. But those are country-wide.