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Post by kent on Aug 17, 2011 15:01:30 GMT -6
I am looking for some information about Rob Kuntz' published material, specifically:
What are the names of say his better five modules/supplements?
When were they published?
How many pages?
Why is the material not available as pdf? Why has no publisher made the stuff available?
Most importantly where can *I* get hold of it?
Since I only use (top notch) published material for inspiration I couldn't help noticing as I read the Kuntz thread on K&KA that his material is highly individual (good), has quirky unsettling set pieces (good) and contains often overlooked obscure hints concerning deep background of events (good).
This guy had an intimate gaming relationship with Gygax which counts for a lot surely? Frankly, the fact that Victor Raymond played with Barker is what drew me here. The tone of many of the comments at K&KA seems grudge-settling. Lets not judge people too harshly for wayward prose, there are very few online who write well in my view and that is less important than content anyway.
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jasmith
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 316
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Post by jasmith on Aug 17, 2011 18:32:30 GMT -6
Noble Knight. I believe they still have copies of Garden of the Plantmaster, the original Maze of Zayene series and some other tidbits.
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Post by Falconer on Aug 17, 2011 21:02:36 GMT -6
Must-haves IMO:
1. Greyhawk
2. Gods, Demi-gods, and Heroes
3. Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure
4. Prisoners of the Maze
5. Garden of the Plantmaster
6. Bottle City
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Post by kent on Aug 18, 2011 11:21:57 GMT -6
Ta. I love noble knight but somehow didn't think Rob Kuntz material would be there.
Im going to get Prisoners of the Maze and Garden of the Plantmaster. If anyone wants to send me their copy of Bottle City let me know (I will pay for postage). Am I right in guessing that these were written in the early nineties and have passed through the hands of several publishers?
Does anyone know if Rob Kuntz was responsible for *temple* in WG4 The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. By this I mean the descriptions of the temple walls, the brilliant secret entrance, the chambers below, absent Tharizdun and the whole eerie atmosphere. I don't mean the words which are clearly Gygax' but the ideas.
I ask because there are few modules I admire as much as WG4, and consider only the Jaquays 4 as highly.
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Post by DungeonDevil on Aug 18, 2011 11:23:59 GMT -6
I'm trying to find a copy of this Bottle City I've been hearing chatter about. Noble Knight had one but apparently it's sold out. I don't want to have to shell out 150 clams for the 'collector's edition' though. *grimace*
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Post by kent on Aug 18, 2011 11:27:38 GMT -6
Don't mind DungeonDevil. Send *me* your copy of Bottle City.
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Post by geoffrey on Aug 18, 2011 11:33:24 GMT -6
Bottle City is a giant sub-level of the dungeons underneath Castle Greyhawk, and it was originally penned in (IIRC) 1974. It "feels" like the 1974 rules plus Supplement I: GREYHAWK.
It was published only once, in 2008. by Rob's own Pied Piper Publishing. The map is a photocopy of the original, honest-to-God hand-drawn map. The text is fleshed-out from the original, extremely terse notes.
In terms of Gygaxian D&D, there is no better module.
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jasmith
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 316
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Post by jasmith on Aug 18, 2011 12:32:58 GMT -6
Ta. I love noble knight but somehow didn't think Rob Kuntz material would be there. Im going to get Prisoners of the Maze and Garden of the Plantmaster. If anyone wants to send me their copy of Bottle City let me know (I will pay for postage). Am I right in guessing that these were written in the early nineties and have passed through the hands of several publishers? Does anyone know if Rob Kuntz was responsible for *temple* in WG4 The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. By this I mean the descriptions of the temple walls, the brilliant secret entrance, the chambers below, absent Tharizdun and the whole eerie atmosphere. I don't mean the words which are clearly Gygax' but the ideas. I ask because there are few modules I admire as much as WG4, and consider only the Jaquays 4 as highly. AFAIK, Bottle City was only published once. The Zayene stuff went through a few different editions. There's an active UK Ebay listing for Bottle City, right now. Way, way over-priced, but the seller is accepting Best Offers. |
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Post by DungeonDevil on Aug 18, 2011 13:52:12 GMT -6
Don't mind DungeonDevil. Send *me* your copy of Bottle City. I don't have one. That's my point.  |
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Post by kent on Aug 18, 2011 16:21:07 GMT -6
Bottle City is a giant sub-level of the dungeons underneath Castle Greyhawk, and it was originally penned in (IIRC) 1974. It "feels" like the 1974 rules plus Supplement I: GREYHAWK.Strange. I don't associate adventures with rules. Are there odds and ends of rules inside? jasmith, thanks. DungeonDevil, I was pretending you were trying to muscle in on a gift copy of Bottle City I expect to be offered soon. |
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Post by moonlapse vertigo on Aug 18, 2011 18:02:25 GMT -6
if you read past/ignore the mind-numbing 3.x stat blocks, the Maure Castle levels he did for Dungeon magazine are also quite good. Also fairly easy to find.
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Post by geoffrey on Aug 18, 2011 18:46:59 GMT -6
Kent, when I read the 1974 D&D rules plus Supplement I: GREYHAWK, I always get a certain "funhouse megadungeon" vibe coupled with a sense of innocence, newness, and wonder, before cynicism and jadedness entered the game.
Bottle City gives me that same vibe. It breathes the atmosphere of the game when all the "old stand-bys" and "same old, same old" were new and mysterious.
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Post by Falconer on Aug 18, 2011 20:28:27 GMT -6
Im going to get Prisoners of the Maze and Garden of the Plantmaster.... Am I right in guessing that these were written in the early nineties and have passed through the hands of several publishers? For both Prisoners and Plantmaster, there was a 1987 edition (published under the “Creations Unlimited” brand with genericized AD&D stats) and a 3e edition (3e-icized by Necromancer and Kenzer, respectively). Obviously you want the original. Does anyone know if Rob Kuntz was responsible for *temple* in WG4 The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. By this I mean the descriptions of the temple walls, the brilliant secret entrance, the chambers below, absent Tharizdun and the whole eerie atmosphere. I don't mean the words which are clearly Gygax' but the ideas. No, I think WG4 was pure Gary, other than the concept of Tharizdun himself, which was Rob’s. Rob’s Dark Druids (the 1e PDF version…not sure where you can get it anymore) is worth looking into if you are interested in Tharizdun. Rob also was a major contributor to S3, and also did the map for the 2nd level of S4. |
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Post by kent on Aug 18, 2011 22:12:46 GMT -6
if you read past/ignore the mind-numbing 3.x stat blocks, the Maure Castle levels he did for Dungeon magazine are also quite good. Also fairly easy to find. I'll take a look. Ta. No, I think WG4 was pure Gary, other than the concept of Tharizdun himself, which was Rob’s. Rob’s Dark Druids (the 1e PDF version…not sure where you can get it anymore) is worth looking into if you are interested in Tharizdun.. Hmm, the idea of the imprisoned(?) god spills into the temple itself so I wonder where the line is drawn. Well whoever is responsible the temple is gaming genius imo. The inhabitants I could take or leave, in fact it might be interesting to repopulate the temple and environs notionally say 500 years in the future. Kent, when I read the 1974 D&D rules plus Supplement I: GREYHAWK, I always get a certain "funhouse megadungeon" vibe coupled with a sense of innocence, newness, and wonder ... Bottle City gives me that same vibe. I do want a copy. Someone should light a fire under grodog to get the thing published again. With respect to OD&D and innocent wonder is this not nostalgia, which I feel when I read the DMG because of all the good memories associated with it? I open the book, I read an essay at random, I am inspired, I close the book taking some blank paper and write. When did you begin using OD&D and what did you use in your youth if not OD&D? |
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Post by geoffrey on Aug 18, 2011 22:48:48 GMT -6
With respect to OD&D and innocent wonder is this not nostalgia, which I feel when I read the DMG because of all the good memories associated with it? I open the book, I read an essay at random, I am inspired, I close the book taking some blank paper and write. When did you begin using OD&D and what did you use in your youth if not OD&D? My friends and I started with the Holmes basic set in 1980. Their set had B1 in it, and mine had B2. (Nothing D&D gives me a hit of pure nostalgia as does the pastel B1.) I also bought the Monster Manual the day I bought Holmes. For the most part we used MM, PHB, DMG, DDG, and FF in our youth. My friends sometime along the way acquired the 1974 rules and the 4 supplements. I didn't more than casually browse through them until I was in my 20s. I was in my 30s when I came to prefer OD&D over AD&D. Bottle City (and the D&D books from 1974-75) have an exuberant sense of newness to them, at least it seems so to me. Frankly, the AD&D hardbacks just don't do much for me anymore. They seem loaded full of extraneous stuff. The 1974-75 books seem like most of the good stuff from AD&D, minus most of the extraneous stuff. The AD&D books also have (to me) that decadent air of "Oh, goblins again." Things were no longer new. All that stuff in the MM (for example) was very old news to Gary and his players when the MM was published. Unlike the sense of newness I get in the OD&D stuff: "Look at what we've been using in our recent games!" About twice a year we play a nostalgic game of D&D (what with goblins, +1 swords, dwarves, magic missiles, and all that), using the 1974-75 rules. Bottle City would be a great module for one of those games. But twice a year is enough. The rest of the time we play in campaign worlds that don't have any of the standard D&D monsters, spells, magic items, etc. |
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Post by kent on Aug 19, 2011 14:08:33 GMT -6
Things were no longer new. All that stuff in the MM (for example) was very old news to Gary and his players when the MM was published. Unlike the sense of newness I get in the OD&D stuff. I can't argue with what works for you though the idea that having read both editions thoroughly AD&D has become stale for you but OD&D remains fresh is entirely an emotional ('feeling', 'sensing') observation and not a whit logical. I think you are trying to generalise from private emotions. Reason would suggest because AD&D is larger it will contain rarely read pieces which are a pleasure to stumble upon and in this way retain some freshness. Carcosa doesn't seem more an OD&D supplement than an AD&D one to me since it is top heavy with campaign detail. Objectively I don't see any difference between the two editions as they both serve their primary purpose equally well, that of fascilitating a creative DM to develop a world to game in. |
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Post by geoffrey on Aug 19, 2011 20:56:31 GMT -6
Kent, do you really not detect a difference of tone between OD&D and AD&D? OD&D seems spring-like to me, but AD&D like summer.
The OD&D booklets have a sort of youthful, breathless excitement to them. The authors couldn't even be bothered to alphabetize anything. "Hey, here's a cool thing that Rob Kuntz made-up in last weekend's game. Throw it in GREYHAWK!" "Here. Try this. Or not. Ignore the whole d**n thing if you want. It's your game." Look at the crazy and funny stuff in the final section of GREYHAWK. "Let's throw Mars mounted on Talos's shoulders at the PCs." Etc.
But with AD&D we have Gary much more self-conscious and serious. No more balrog PCs. Mega-dungeons and fun-houses are put on the back burner. Now ecology, consistency, and (to use James of Grognardia's term) Gygaxian naturalism reign supreme. The creator is no more dealing with his creation in a state of breathless excitement. He's older now, more seasoned. He's seen it all. Now he is the Master issuing dicta about The Right Way to run a campaign. "Trust me. I've seen the converse tried, and it's never pretty." Etc.
(To continue the seaons analogy, I find the late 1st edition AD&D hardbacks to be autumnal, while later editions are all "the winter of our discontent".)
Or perhaps I've misunderstood you.
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Post by kent on Aug 20, 2011 16:50:10 GMT -6
For me a campaign world is a very very very big place. Beneath a wide veneer of realism I geographically distribute gonzo, surreal, horrific and fairy arenas.
When I look through the OD&D books I see much that I am overfamiliar with. My expensive OD&D set was a big investment and I wished it would create a different magic for me than that created by AD&D but the inspiration I derive from the little books is encompassed by the bigger books. Believe me, because I spent so much I still would love some day to flick through the sparse definitions in the books and go 'ah, now here is something I haven't thought of.' I believe I played AD&D the way others play OD&D, meaning I continually reinterpreted definitions and was ruthless in selecting, omitting and creating rules. When a player asks 'what is the rule for ...?', he does not mean what is the rule in the book because he doesn't assume I have not modified it.
Allowing a player to be a Balrog is a genuinely interesting conceptual difference. And yes I wonder if it is a freedom that sounds better on paper than when realised, and the discouragement of the idea was a result of experience. I think only a brilliant player could roleplay a Balrog, say Tolkien's Balrog, well; I don't see any point to allowing a player wear a Balrog costume.
Our different views would be easy to explain if OD&D produced light hearted throwaway campaigns. Instant fun, no thinking allowed, no roleplaying. From what Ive read this is certainly not true.
To try to find common ground I wonder what the difference playing Caverns of Thracia or WG4 with AD&D and OD&D would be? I personally think there would be little difference barring player pressure on the DM to conform to all the AD&D rules rather than please himself.
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Post by grodog on Aug 22, 2011 21:38:16 GMT -6
Hi Kent--- I am looking for some information about Rob Kuntz' published material, specifically: What are the names of say his better five modules/supplements? When were they published? My choices for top 5 published RJK adventures: 1. WG5 Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure (1984)/Maure Castle (2005; d20 version of WG5 and expansions to it; all OOP) 2. Bottle City (PPP 2008?; OOP) 3. Dark Druids (TLG 2002 or PPP 2008? for expanded 1e version; OOP) 4. MoZ4 Eight Kings (CU OOP or Different Worlds for d20 version) 5. Dark Chateau (TLG 2005; OOP) Why is the material not available as pdf? Why has no publisher made the stuff available? Until more-recently, Rob hasn't been very interested in publishing in the .pdf format. Most importantly where can *I* get hold of it? Until the books are back in print, your best bets are: NobleKnight, TrollandToad, the Acaeum classifieds, and eBay. if you read past/ignore the mind-numbing 3.x stat blocks, the Maure Castle levels he did for Dungeon magazine are also quite good. Also fairly easy to find. Indeed, although the Maure Castle issues of Dungeon aren't particularly cheap in general, you can sometimes find them for less than $10 each, if you're patient on eBay. I do want a copy. Someone should light a fire under grodog to get the thing published again. Thanks for the vote of confidence/support  Be sure to send Rob a note to that effect, too, since it's always good for him to see the pent up demand for reprints. |
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Post by kent on Aug 22, 2011 22:20:31 GMT -6
Howdy grodog, 1. WG5 Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure (1984)/Maure Castle (2005; d20 version of WG5 and expansions to it; all OOP) 2. Bottle City (PPP 2008?; OOP) I didn't see WG5 recommended much before even though I had heard of it so I must take a look. Bottle City gets all the love. It is frequently described as gonzo but does that mean it is close to Tegel Manor in spirit? I don't like that module much. I have ordered Plantmaster and Prisoners of the Maze already. Until the books are back in print, your best bets are: ... the Acaeum classifieds ... I have used the site extensively but not the forums. Never knew about the classifieds, so you join the forum and then arrange to buy using PMs and Paypal? I do want a copy. Someone should light a fire under grodog to get the thing published again. Thanks for the vote of confidence/support Be sure to send Rob a note to that effect, too, since it's always good for him to see the pent up demand for reprints. With printing so convenient these days it would be great to have the pdf option available somewhere. I have taken to getting booklets made from A3 size folded to A4 reading pages, with colour card covers. Works great. Where would be the best place to let him know about interest? PM here? |
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Post by grodog on Aug 23, 2011 20:30:56 GMT -6
I didn't see WG5 recommended much before even though I had heard of it so I must take a look. WG5 is the basis for the 1st 3 (of 4) Maure Castle levels in Dungeon 112, so if you have that, you don't necessarily need WG5 itself (although I like the maps better than those in Dungeon, as well as the art, of course ). Bottle City gets all the love. It is frequently described as gonzo but does that mean it is close to Tegel Manor in spirit? I don't like that module much. I can't compare---I haven't read or played Tegel. I have used the site extensively but not the forums. Never knew about the classifieds, so you join the forum and then arrange to buy using PMs and Paypal? Pretty much. You should also check out rpgmarketplace.com/index.php? which is run by one of hte Acaeum members as a fee-less alternative to eBay. With printing so convenient these days it would be great to have the pdf option available somewhere. I have taken to getting booklets made from A3 size folded to A4 reading pages, with colour card covers. Works great. Where would be the best place to let him know about interest? PM here? Probably a comment on his blog, or in his DF Q&A thread (although he may not be monitoring that as much lately). |
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Post by crusssdaddy on Aug 26, 2011 19:47:55 GMT -6
Kent, maybe you've already seen it but there's an old Kuntz (that sounds naughty!) interview in the Oerth Journal #14. Same publication, issue #12 has a Gygax interview that touches on some Tharizdun questions you might find interesting. oerthjournal.blogspot.com/p/oerth-journal-downloads.html |
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Post by kent on Aug 27, 2011 6:32:04 GMT -6
Crusssdaddy, that is an interesting magazine and I hadn't heard of it, cheers.
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Post by grodog on Aug 30, 2011 15:13:14 GMT -6
Rob also published several early Greyhawk campaign pieces himself or co-authored with Doug Behringer:
- Robilar Remembers Erac's Cousin (Oerth Journal 5, written with Douglas J. Behringer)
- Journey to the City of the Gods (Oerth Journal 6)
- Lord Robilar and Company (Oerth Journal 7, written with Douglas J. Behringer)
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Post by Rhuvein on Sept 3, 2011 19:32:24 GMT -6
Bottle City is a giant sub-level of the dungeons underneath Castle Greyhawk, and it was originally penned in (IIRC) 1974. It "feels" like the 1974 rules plus Supplement I: GREYHAWK. It was published only once, in 2008. by Rob's own Pied Piper Publishing. The map is a photocopy of the original, honest-to-God hand-drawn map. The text is fleshed-out from the original, extremely terse notes. In terms of Gygaxian D&D, there is no better module. +1  |
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Lord Kjeran
Level 2 Seer
Order of the Six Severed Hands
Posts: 26
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Post by Lord Kjeran on Sept 3, 2011 23:26:43 GMT -6
I have to say, 2 of my favorites are from his newer work.
1. El Raja Key's Arcane Treasury
-and-
2. CAS1 Cairn of the Skeleton King
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2011 21:34:56 GMT -6
To End is but to Start... Thanks everyone, and I am catching up to date with a lot here, so these will be broad brush strokes. 1) Set a fire under Grodog's butt as he and Black Blade must make a decision on my DVD Collection soon. During that time the Bottle City and CAS1 & CAS2 PDFs will be discussed as well, if that is a go. If not, I will source all of this to another party for consideration. 2) Ice Grave is in Limbo as I never received the final art for this, so it goes. I am no longer interested in seeing this posted and it will no doubt be added to the DVD, if/when that occurs. 3) I am currently researching matter for a board game I've wanted to design over the last two years (this would make my fifth if I succeed); and in editing-production managing Timeshadow's SF miniature rules, VANGUARD. 4) My email has changed as Pied Piper Publishing is no more. To contact me, go through Grodog/Black Blade. 5) I will be attending one convention per year only, and that is NTXRPGCon. I wish Garycon lots of continued success, as always. The only reason I'd attend is to see the Gygax family, anyway, as they mean more to me than the convention itself. 6) I am stone-cold tired of crafting dungeon adventures, they actually bore me to tears, now. I make no apology for this as I have done more than my share. All of what I have in old Greyhawk material. levels, city, outdoor. planar ad infinitum, will be added to the DVD, if and when that occurs. This is all I am willing to deal with regarding the matter of forthcoming RPG material. 7) What I have to say next verges on the personal and humanistic, or some such. I don't care how anyone takes it, these are my feelings. I'm literally quite exhausted at being an object. Let me explain. In my many years at DF all of this "feeling" was ensconced in object worship, of the past, the present and the future objects that I either had made, was in the process of making, or would in the future, the God of Objects willing, would make. This may be a somewhat shallow view on my part, but it is the feeling I got. This is not to say that these fan outlooks and expressions were not worthy or sincere, but only that these seem limited to this view only. I understand people pay for things I have designed and thus they are entitled to criticism and speculation regarding me as an author. I understand both of these concepts, especially the latter. And I understand that I put myself and my products up for sale, so to speak. But the why of it is what remains, as it was not just for money. Money has never been a great deal with me. Creativity, then? Well that's my art, so yes, that's part, but not quite... If you look at my designs, most if not all stress openness fused with a wonder generated by new design particles. I have always wanted to design to show how I felt about my earliest days in adventuring and in design. This with the hope that the concept would remain a constant reminder to those who proceeded me, or, for those DMs who would "get it" for their own games and thus create their own stuff. The latter, IMO, embraces he real down to earth reason why I design. I am no EGG waving a $285,000 royalty check in your face he was once did to me... I remained a fan at heart, a champion of doing the creating myself, but was in essence trapped between a rock and a hard place when TSR went the opposite route with pm-adventures. I took an oath then that if I felt that my designs were not up to snuff or in fact did not trump my last ones, that I'd call it quits. Well, it didn't happen exactly that way. I have realized, instead, that I am just tired of the same measures, over and over, and in the fact have realized that less and less people create now for the simple joy of it, but would rather wait for objects to fill their needs in this area while creating sites, like DF, to discuss these objects and their merits. Such is life in object-oriented America. Objects never let you down for the most part and we all have them. But I must end my participation in creating them as my work is done in *this area of expression*. My examples are out there. They will remain even after my death, but what I wonder besides having entertained folks is what they really achieved on singular levels beyond that? I will never know for certain; and that is all I am left with and thus that is all I can leave for my fans, except to say, Thank You for your time and dedication to my art. ---RJK index.rpg.net/display-search.phtml?key=contributor&value=Robert+J.+Kuntzboardgamegeek.com/boardgamedesigner/1188/robert-j-kuntz |
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Post by havard on Sept 7, 2011 11:51:16 GMT -6
Hey Rob, glad to hear word from you at least!  Speaking for myself only, I definately would not want you to do things you don't feel like doing yourself. Hope you stick around at this place if only to drop by and tell us how you are doing every now and then -Havard |
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Post by kent on Sept 11, 2011 14:02:27 GMT -6
Set a fire under Grodog's butt as he and Black Blade must make a decision on my DVD Collection soon. During that time the Bottle City and CAS1 & CAS2 PDFs will be discussed as well I am just the man for this. I will will stir grodog into action with the whips and arrows of provocation. I will encourage him with a reserve of insults I have set aside which target laziness with humiliating panache. All jokes aside, Rob Kuntz, you should not be in a position where in the mind of many gamers your best work is not available to those who have decided they want it. I am referring to the Bottle City. Making it available as a pdf is one night's work. I have always wanted to design to show how I felt about my earliest days in adventuring and in design. This with the hope that the concept would remain a constant reminder to those who proceeded me, or, for those DMs who would "get it" for their own games and thus create their own stuff. The latter, IMO, embraces he real down to earth reason why I design. I for one know what you mean. I have never used a module or third party campaign setting material with the exception of two wilderlands maps. Wouldn't module lovers have been better off without them? on Dragonsfoot is my thread. www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=46318My interest as a hobbyist in the best of modules is so that I can imagine being a fly on the wall in someone else's campaign (someone good). I don't need aid yet I am interested in how others manage their games. And here is a brief blogpost I wrote with advice for a beginning DM. Essentially I recommend always writing your own material. somekingskent.blogspot.com/2009/01/ive-been-reading-about-old-school-od.html |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2011 16:51:13 GMT -6
Kent said:
"I am just the man for this. I will will stir grodog into action with the whips and arrows of provocation. I will encourage him with a reserve of insults I have set aside which target laziness with humiliating panache."
There are over 1000 files, not counting hundreds more I never auctioned which will be include. Methinks that a few polls here and there might suffice to secure the matter in the proper light. Nagging never gets anyone anywhere, of course. BB's position could be that they do not have enough time resource for something so complicated and massive. That is what Grodog is attempting to ascertain at the moment.
"All jokes aside, Rob Kuntz, you should not be in a position where in the mind of many gamers your best work is not available to those who have decided they want it. I am referring to the Bottle City. Making it available as a pdf is one night's work."
Maybe. I understand what you say. But the pdfs would be edited for what mistakes occurred in the Or. Print versions. In this case, this is not a separate deal PDF<>DVD. I do not wish to deal with different publishers over these items, only one.
I have always wanted to design to show how I felt about my earliest days in adventuring and in design. This with the hope that the concept would remain a constant reminder to those who proceeded me, or, for those DMs who would "get it" for their own games and thus create their own stuff. The latter, IMO, embraces he real down to earth reason why I design.
I for one know what you mean. I have never used a module or third party campaign setting material with the exception of two wilderlands maps.
Wouldn't module lovers have been better off without them? on Dragonsfoot is my thread.
www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=46318
Travis nails the disconnect on the head: "I am not equating modules with DMing. Most American gamers find this notion impossible to understand." Once you go down that path (eager dependent) you rarely come back. It is about reading, studying and creating, using your imagination. Thousands of DMs in 1974 and 1975 did it (that's 100%, folks); were they more informed than others? Or is it now that the model of pm-adventures is so in force that looking back upon these oldest examples seems archaic and not genuine? There is massive disconnect going on and it has lead to surmises of what good or better design is and as promoted in a vacuum by those who have no idea WHATSOEVER what good design is for they are indeed products of the vacuum themselves.
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Be sure to send Rob a note to that effect, too, since it's always good for him to see the pent up demand for reprints.
