my vision of Gamma World

[geoffrey]

Some of you will already be familiar with some of my ideas on a cool Gamma World conception. Here I've gathered most of my thoughts on the subject.

Right up front let me note that I do not like a wild and wacky Gamma World setting. (Unfortunately, this style of play was supported to at least an extent in the published modules.) I don't like that, and I never have liked it. A post-apocalyptic campaign should be nothing if not serious.

That said, I don't think that the 1st edition Gamma World rulebook implies a wacky world. The cardinal problem is that some of the rulebook's illustrations (though not all--such as the cool cover) are wacky (such as those d**n rabbits with the rifles). Ignore those illustrations, forget about other peoples' wacky GW campaigns, and read the rulebook with fresh eyes. Its setting is dark and inhuman (with just a few discordant notes, such as the aforementioned rabbits), moreso than any other RPG I've ever seen. [And don't forget that the AD&D Monster Manual, Players Handbook, and Dungeon Masters Guide all have outright cartoons in them, but that doesn't stop AD&D from being able to be as deadly serious as the D trilogy of modules, or S1.]

Some considerations:

GW is bleaker IMO even than Call of Cthulhu. In both those games, mankind is eventually going to go extinct, but in GW the extinction has already started and is nearly complete. Instead of living on a planet with billions of humans on it (as in CoC), the humans of GW number probably only in the hundreds of thousands. You run the numbers, consider that high-tech artifacts are becoming scarcer by the day, and look at how the various mutants with human-level intelligence are all more powerful than the pure strain humans...

...and you're looking at human extinction. The Big Show is over. The Apocalypse has already struck, and it wasn't a mere WWIII. The very continents buckled. The very oceans boiled. All the nukes on earth couldn't do that. Mysterious forces and energies changed the very fabric of life on earth. Probably vertebrates as a whole (not just humans) didn't do too well. Now comes the age of the insect, the worm, the plant, the fungus, and all the hideousness of the microscopic world. The entire Gamma World is dominated by gloppy, tentacled, multi-legged, insectile, oozy, writhing, hideous abortions of life. At the most humans will be around for another 1,000 years (if they're lucky), and in that time their numbers will continually dwindle until the number reaches 0. And they are already well over 99% of the way there. GW simply allows you to adventure in the last choking gasp of humanity before the ultimate end.

In my experience, CoC characters last longer than do GW characters. Plus CoC characters live in a safe world. If they so chose, they could simply stay at home and listen to the radio. To get in real danger, CoC PCs typically have to go looking for it in obscure corners of the world. Contrast that with GW, in which there is no safety or comfort anywhere. The best you can hope for is to find yourself in a place relatively less dangerous than others. The whole freakin' planet is a danger zone.

In CoC there are happy families all over the world with little children playing safely in the yard. People go to movies, eat out, take vacations, and enjoy life. There's none of that in GW. That sort of thing is over. Civilization is gone. All that is left is a planet-wide mutated and insane wilderness, with a few small bands of endangered humans here and there.

I think that the tribe of natives in Jackson's King Kong perfectly illustrates what the typical human enclave would be in Gamma World. These guys are seriously messed-up from living in the shadow of vastly more powerful monsters.

Also, get some good recent science books (with lots and lots of color photos) about insects and microscopic life. That stuff is more horrific and even Lovecraftian that Lovecraft's best work. Now imagine the real-world insects and microscopic organisms horribly mutated and much LARGER, and some with a high (though inhuman) intelligence. As much as I love Lovecraft's extraterrestrials in At the Mountains of Madness and "The Shadow out of Time" (which I regard as clearly Lovecraft's two finest works), they aren't as scary as the GW versions of real-life creepy-crawly stuff.

Also, I do not think it would be possible for humans to rebuild their civilization in GW. They've been shunted back into the Stone Age. They'd have to start all over again by learning to farm...er, maybe not, since the flora bites back. And they'd have to learn to domesticate animals...um, ah, the animals are now trying to domesticate humans. It's a non-starter. With no farming, none of the rest of technical civilization follows. Small groups for short amounts of time could carve out little enclaves of high-technology. But who do they call when their computer crashes? Now their robot-control network doesn't work (resulting in wild and/or uncontrolled and/or defunct robots), and all they have are a few hand-held weapons with, oh, 47 charges total. What happens after firing that 47th charge? Meanwhile, the mutants can fire those eyebeams from now until the cows come home. Plus those mutants are making little mutants. Nobody's making new high-tech items. Inhuman mutated insects and mutated microbes inherit the earth.

In short, I think that a 1st edition GW campaign can be darker and more serious than any other type of campaign.

In a GW campaign I like to have a lot of "god-mutants" (as well as "god-computers" and robot "gods"). These "gods" are definitely not gods in the sense of A/D&D gods. They are simply powerful monsters that delusional beings worship. Of course, the primary form of worship would be sacrificing humans to them by giving them to their monster gods to eat. (Think of that purple worm "god" in Necromancer's Ancient Kingdoms: Mesopotamia, or [closer to home] the "gods" in module C1: The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan.)

Why would humans worship such monsters? Survival. Pure strain humans (unless armed to the teeth with the rare tech) are generally too weak to survive without protection from the mutated flora and fauna of Gamma World. In exchange for a steady stream of sacrifices, a mutant god would allow the pitiful humans to live in its vicinity. Humans would also tend to worship powerful computers and robots. The only humans not so benighted would be the vanishingly rare enclaves (typically from artificial satellites) of humans whose ancestors maintained pre-holocaust civilization and passed it down to them. They would still recognize high-tech as simply tools and not as gods. In fact, if other humans were to run into such pocket remnants of pre-holocaust civilization, they would probably treat those humans themselves as gods.

With considerations such as the above, one can have a long-lasting and far-reaching campaign of rival gods and their worshippers. It's precisely because there is nothing supernatural or "airy-fairy" about these gods that they really fire my imagination. No theologies, creeds, philosophies, spiritualities, etc. Instead, there are powerful mutants or computers demanding tangible objects from their worshippers. In return the worshippers get protection and perhaps some material rewards (and not spells!). I like how old Zadok Allen described the worshippers of the Deep Ones in section III of Lovecraft's "The Shadow over Innsmouth": "I kin mind him [Captain Obed]...callin' all the folks stupid fer goin' to Christian meetin' an' bearin' their burdens meek an' lowly. Says they'd orter git better gods like some 'o the folks in the Injies--gods as ud bring 'em good fishin' in return for their sacrifices, an' ud reely answer folks's prayers...Them things liked human sacrifices...What the things agreed to give in return was plenty o' fish--they druv 'em in from all over the sea--an' a few gold-like things naow an' then."

I also dislike a "Road Warrior" type of setting for GW. That sort of setting is far too close to the real world for my taste. Any everyday technology we have today (motorcycles, shotguns, etc.) breaks the spell for me in a GW campaign. I like only far-futuristic tech (and rare at that) in a GW campaign--stuff such as laser pistols, advanced robots, and the like. I also don't like for there to be remains of real-world cities (New York, London, or what-have-you) still existing, or any contemporary topography (mountains, rivers, etc.) for that matter. I prefer for the post-holocaust world to be entirely new. Different continents, different oceans, different flora and fauna, etc. The only remnants from the old world being some of the far-futuristic tech I mentioned above, and some pure strain humans. I like my GW setting to be science-fantasy (the "fantasy" part in terms of weird mutations, not in terms of magic spells and the supernatural).

[Zulgyan]

Fantastic read. Loved it. Have an exalt!

I think I must finally try GW.

[driver]

I think you have a very solid, coherent vision of Gamma World, and I'm probably going to pull out my 1e boxed set and a blank JG hex map and consider working on a setting and running a campaign for the first time in almost 25 years.

You've taken the ideas in the rulebook to a well thought out conclusion, but not the only conclusion. Much of the inspirational source material certainly seems to support settings and tones other than "The Earth Died Screaming."

That said, dark weird fantasy is one of my Big Things, so I'm going to break out the rulebook and I suspect I'll wind up in the same neighborhood you did -- somewhere between Hothouse and Zothique as opposed to Hiero's Journey and Earth Abides.

(To be clear, I don't think you're putting forward that your concept is the only concept.

[murquhart72]

Yeah, that's pretty much the spirit of things, I think. After seeing a documentary on Discovery about the state of the planet after humanity splits, it's easy to see just what a drop in the bucket our civilization really is!
By the time Gamma World takes place, the only stuff left of this age might be the pyramids, Mt. Rushmore and the Hoover Dam (which may even supply electricity). One wouldn't recognize the skeletal cities under the foliage, the buildings would basically become part of the earth itself.
And now that we've nearly used up all the metal that's easy to get to, how could Humanity get into the Bronze or Iron Age again, let alone something resembling the Middle Ages?

[geoffrey]

Apr 16, 2008 4:27:02 GMT -6 @driver said:

I don't think you're putting forward that your concept is the only concept.

Right. My concept is only one of many. My concern is that too many people think that Gamma World is inescapably wacky, though it can be anything but.

[driver]

I think we're very much on the same page as to tone ... I find myself thinking of a blend of weird fantasy, S&S, and survival horror. I flipped through the GW 1e book again this morning while entertaining a ferret, and am feeling a bit peppery with ideas. If anything comes of it, I'll post a thread in this forum.

[danproctor]

Apr 16, 2008 7:59:09 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

My concern is that too many people think that Gamma World is inescapably wacky, though it can be anything but.

I think some people see the "fantasy" in the "science fantasy" as the wacky part. When you have mutations like shooting lasers from your eyes and things like that, people see it as "wacky" and so play up what some people would view as absurd. Where do you draw the line? Are bipedal bunnies any more "wacky" than a mutation that lets you travel through time?

Different strokes

[sham]

I've never read any published GW module. To me, GW didn't HAVE to be set on Earth. I just liked the idea of post-apocalyptic gaming. I never viewed it as a whimsical game, instead I favored the dark, unforgiving wastelands where mankind has reverted from top of the food chain back to somewhere in the middle.

OTOH, I do enjoy certain real world tech in my GW settings, sawed-off shotguns, radios, internal combustion engines, etc.

There certainly was future tech, as per the rules, but I like the low tech stuff too, things that an average person might still have used just before the cataclysm.

Although radios and internal combustion engines don't seem as realistic for a futuristic setting as they once did to me, say in 1982.

I heartily endorse your post, though Geoffrey!

[kslacker]

These posts really inspired me, and I've included your ideas for the world outside of the civilized 'Affiliation' lands in my current online game:

barrierpeaksrpg.wordpress.com/about-the-expedition/beyond-the-affiliation/

[castiglione]

I just started reading Vance's Dying Earth novels and this occurred to me:

1) Gamma World is set hundreds of years after the Apocalypse.

2) D&D is set THOUSANDS of years after Gamma World.

[BeZurKur]

Excellent insight, geoffrey. Do you have any actual play reports? While I get the theory of what you're talking about, I'd love to see the application. If not, how about a brief description of what a game like this may be like? I mean the practical stuff the players get. What is an adventure like? Your post really makes me want to forage through my old boxes and dig out my 1st edition copy (hoping I still have it) but I'm still at a loss at how I'd run it.

[geoffrey]

Jul 26, 2008 0:04:54 GMT -6 BeZurKur said:

Excellent insight, geoffrey. Do you have any actual play reports? While I get the theory of what you're talking about, I'd love to see the application. If not, how about a brief description of what a game like this may be like? I mean the practical stuff the players get. What is an adventure like? Your post really makes me want to forage through my old boxes and dig out my 1st edition copy (hoping I still have it) but I'm still at a loss at how I'd run it.

I have only one GW play report, and (since it is in a megadungeon), it doesn't touch on a lot of the stuff I mentioned in this thread. That said, this is better than nothing:

Taking Ev's advice, I stopped just reading about megadungeons and actually started making one. Further taking his advice, I didn't wait to "finish" it before running it, since that is a formula for never running it. I drew a big map of the first level (about 22" by 18") with 136 encounter areas, which naturally divided itself into about 10 main chunks. I keyed one such chunk (27 encounter areas), and left it at that. I took Tegel Manor as my guide, and put as much as possible on the map itself, with very short (2 lines average) room descriptions in the key. I also kept the background which I read aloud to the players very short--under 100 words.

One thing that I've always liked in dungeons is a list of 20 or so rumors about the place (which can be true or false). Since I have barely started making my megadungeon, I don't really know which rumors will end up being true or false, but just making up rumors gave me further ideas for my megadungeon.

I had just two players. Both initially chose to play mutated animals. One chose a mutated praying mantis, which I thought a cool choice. One of the mutations he rolled was for larger size, and he ended up being 8 meters long! This led to problems down the road, as both he and his fellow player mistakenly thought this giant praying mantis would be an unstoppable tank. (Both these players have been RPGing since 1980, so they should have known better, especially with Gamma World.) The other player chose to play a mutant grizzly bear (which I thought a rather pedestrian choice, but it wasn't my call).

These two characters (which they didn't even bother to name--I was proud of them: old-school characters don't need no stinkin' names!) lasted only two hours (real time). The mutant bear had an odor about him that attracted meat-eaters, so I doubled the number of times I rolled for wandering monsters. They weren't smart enough to avoid these wandering monsters! A megadungeon is a tactical and unforgiving environment. You can't make too many stupid choices before you're dead. They got pretty badly chewed-up by wandering monsters, so they decided to make their fatal mistake:

They camped in a room INSIDE the dungeon, which wasn't even very secure! The mutant praying mantis had a regenerative mutation that healed a hp every 26 minutes. They figured they'd just camp-out for 18 hours and get all healed up. Wrong. A wandering monster would show up on an average of once every 90 minutes, which means that they were exposing themselves to an average of TWELVE such encounters while they were supposedly "resting". Some mutant ants came and ate them both. Darwin in action.

They rolled-up new characters, this time choosing to play a humanoid and a pure strain human. They regreted not being able to manipulate technological things as animals, thus their new choices. Back they went and made THREE big mistakes that, taken together, were fatal:

1. They approached a room with alternating black and mirrored tile bands. They correctly deduced that one of the two colors was to be avoided, while the other could be safely walked upon. So what did the geniuses do? Did they try standing back and tapping with their pole? No. Did they at least flip a coin and try standing on one of the two colors of tile? No. They actually BOTH entered the room, stating that one would step on the black tile and the other would step on the mirrored tile! Single most bizarre decision of the evening! They thus ensured that the trap would be sprung on BOTH of them, without even knowing who triggered the trap. Both were wounded by the laser rays crisscrossing the room.

2. The wounded duo later encountered a small robot wandering through the dungeon, searching for pests to exterminate. They wisely did not attack it, HOWEVER... The pure stain human didn't even try to reprogram it! He didn't so much as issue a voice command! As he was rolling-up his human character, he and I were even mentioning that a human in Gamma World starts off weak, but can eventually be the strongest because he can acquire a robot army! He specifically mentioned he was passing-up the advantages of mutant powers in favor of having more aptitude with technology. The dice were kind, and presented to him a tentacled and laser-equipped tough little robot that would have been easily reprogrammed. And he did nothing.

3. The duo by this point should be relatively undamaged and strengthened by having a robot servant. Instead, they were limping alone through the dungeon. They finally went into a room and were surprised by giant black mutant scorpions. Just by being near the scorpions they were taking damage from the radiation emitted from the scorpions' bodies. Run! Run away! You're already wounded and the scorpions are doing automatic damage from the radiation, not to mention their melee attacks. Instead, they fought. And died. After only two hours.

My point of these sad tales is this: Megadungeoneering requires sharp tactical thinking. Many players get lazy outside of a tactical environment. They don't develop the near-paranoid attitude essential for survival in the dungeon. My players certainly didn't have it. They weren't unlucky. They were stupid.

But the good thing is is that we all had a blast, in spite of the mortality rate. Also, the play gave me further ideas for my megadungeon. Ev has correctly pointed out that creating a megadungeon is easier when done piecemeal with players actually going through it, rather than sitting down with some blank paper and creating a 40-level dungeon in a vacuum.

[BeZurKur]

That's was pretty awesome! Thanks for posting it.

Like you pointed out, it's a megadungeon and highlights the classic D&D themes. I wonder if, for your dungeon, Mutant Future might be a better fit. The game is -- as you know -- basically Labyrinth Lord in a sci-fi/fantasy post apocalyptic world. As such, it supports the themes familiar with a dungeon, like levels and treasure. Gamma World has them too, but treasure is really only valuable for its own sake and levels -- like you pointed out elsewhere -- are not a big deal.

In a more traditional treasure hunting / leveling game, you are directly and meaningfully rewarded for treasure. Perhaps with that guidance, your player would have stopped to own/control the robot. He would have then scooped up a ton of XP for the robots worth versus the XP for defeating it. The apocalyptic-megadungeon and Mutant Future is basically D&D with a change of color.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I understand how D&D encourages a type of play. I've read it and played it; it works. However, while I very much so want to play the game you are describing, I'm not sure how the rules support it. If they don't support it, I could play any other rules light game with the same -- albeit very cool -- tone.

[Finarvyn]

Apr 15, 2008 17:02:39 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

Right up front let me note that I do not like a wild and wacky Gamma World setting. (Unfortunately, this style of play was supported to at least an extent in the published modules.) I don't like that, and I never have liked it. A post-apocalyptic campaign should be nothing if not serious.

That said, I don't think that the 1st edition Gamma World rulebook implies a wacky world.

I missed this thread the first time around.

It's interesting that when articles first came out in Dragon and when I first heard about (and bought) Gamma World I never really had the idea that it was supposed to be wacky. Only later on (as I remember it) did this seem to become a popular approach to the game.

Of course, I also have the habit of missing things that others see as obvious. "Oh, so that's how you're supposed to do it...!"

1. As you said, the illustrations seem kind of wacky. Frankly, I spent more time looking at rules and don't remember the pictures much. I guess when I look at them again I can see a wacky theme.

2. Some of the charts for figuring out stuff are strange, and perhaps that adds some of the feel. I describe a tube with clear glass on one end and a button in the middle and you scream "it's a flashlight" but your character still can't figure it out because of the darned charts. That's kind of wacky.

3. I haven't looked at the modules, but some of the names seem to imply potential wackiness. Lots of in-jokes and play on words in the names. When I read Horseclans and they mention Pitzburk I never roll in the aisles with laughter, but some of the names in GW are apparently supposed to get you to laugh.

Overall, I agree that GW can be a tough, gritty world. Becasue that's the way I play it. Having said that, I can certainly see how someone could have fun with it in a "wahoo" setting.

I'm just glad I'm not the only one who plays a serious Gamma World campaign!

[cadriel]

I think I have to voice the dissenting opinion on this one. Gamma World is a fine game, and I wouldn't discourage for a minute an individual gamer taking it as he or she pleases. But Jim Ward's name is on the game, and he has pretty much always represented the weird and wacky side of gaming. GW was an expansion of the ideas in his funhouse Metamorphosis Alpha, and I think he did a marvelous job of making it accessible for people who want to play it differently, but this was a game that introduced rabbits with guns and had a random mutation chart, and was almost certainly written to be playable as far-out and goofy as you desire. Personally, when (not if) I do a GW level in my megadungeon, it will be suitably wacky in tribute.

In other words, while I think you're doing it right, so is everyone who's having fun, including the cheesiest GW you can think of.

[Max]

Nov 16, 2008 11:06:22 GMT -6 cadriel said:

this was a game that introduced rabbits with guns....

Rabbits with guns who are directly inspired by Bugs Bunny, no less. What else is the power to transform metal into rubber about, doc?

I'm with Cadriel on this. I always describe my preferred mode for GW as slapstick ultraviolence. The more dopey pop-cult references the better!

Takes nothing from Geoffrey's very cool notions, of course. Just not the version I'd run.

[katana]

I loved Gamma World...It was my first taste at a Post-Apocalyptic setting. I also found bunnies with m-16's to be a curiosity filled with irreproachable humor, but on the flip side, I couldn't get behind the whole walking plant thing. Similarly, the future tech thing was something I always made as the most difficult thing to find while also being few in numbers...no great underground vaults of plutonic disruptors here....And then we have the Road Warrior ? Escape from N.Y. influence...Common films of the day that added a validity to a background because we were to young to realize that it wouldn't last. Later I would see a documentary on the effects to plant life that Chernobyl would yeild...A leaf was shown, two to three times it's normal size...mutation due to radiation. It was surmised that after a period of time, the leaf would return to it's normal size. And while we know that radiation kills, we can surmise the old addage, if it doesn't kill you...So I take a bit from the movie the Last Chase and later I am Legend, which show the characters pumping the remaining gas from the abandoned service stations around the area. In a campaign where cars still run (no emp bursts) then the road warrior scenario is viable, at least until the vehicles break down, the distances to travel for fuel become to great and dangerous, ect...All this is assuming that we are dealing with a PA-like campaign world that is the result of a financial meltdown, which results in a cataclysmic failure of Law and Government. Essentially the people are left to thier own survival instincts, whilst the rich and powerful, secrete themselves to an underground seed vault in Norway. My point is that any campaign setting can be justified if enough plausibility is engaged in the lead up text.

[jjarvis]

GammaWorld and MA can be all over the place in plausibility or wackiness. A GM just has to pick a general style and drift from it slowly.

Years back one of my players was having trouble with GW, it's mutants and it's HP and amazingly enough chilled out and enjoyed it when I said "Picture it more like a comic book like Kammandi: last boy on earth as opposed to a movie like road warrior."

For "realistic" (meaning get dead even quicker) I found the hit location tables in the Blackmoor supplement work great in MA and GW.

[vladtolenkov]

Geoffrey--

In the original post you mention the horrific possibility of giant real world insects being more disturbing than anything Lovecraft conceived.

I'm with you there--but remember that the Great Race from "The Shadow Out of Time" are said to later project their minds to a species of giant beetles that are said to follow man's extinction. Food for thought in your vision of GW's setting!

Just thinking.