Religion (Clerics) in M.E.

[xerxez]

I will be running a M.E. game soon, was looking over the old I.C.E. materials and in thinking about it, I know I.C.E. was adapting it for a role paying setting but in surveying Tolkien's worksI don't see clerics or even priests or temples nor any ritual worship. I may have simply forgotten.

What are the thoughts of Tolkien fans on religion in Middle earth? This isn't bait, by the way, and I really don't want to get into a contest to see who can pee the farthest when it comes to ME Lore, I am honestly seeking constructive input about a subject which to me is very vague in the books.

I don't think it was an omission--I think the spirituality of the good folk of ME is based on the subtle magic of ME and the Secret Flame and its an individual inner matter, and I'm thinking about omitting any cleric or temple system altogether.

I don't think Illuvatar or the Valar even care to be worshiped in this fashion, as I recall he was worshiped with some ceremony at Numenor before they turned to devil worship, but I can't remember.

Thoughts?

[Falconer]

My thoughts in this thread.

[xerxez]

Thanks Falconer--I have appreciated your posts on Middle Earth, they offer great tips.

I think you have hit the nail on the head with the cleric to ranger idea.

I have always seen the Dunedain Rangers as a religious order in a sense, as well.

I don't see any need for a priestly class via organized temple religion nor religious texts.

[Falconer]

Agreed. That takes care of the Cleric class. This seems to address the bigger question of “organized religion.” Obviously temples exist amongst evils, and otherwise not — or at least we can say with certainty that Tolkien didn’t want it to be a “thing” in Middle-earth. I suppose I would leave it up to an individual player if he wanted to have a favorite Vala* that he likes to call upon, but I would avoid the word worship.

* - Durin or Mótsognir for dwarves; Farmer Maggot or Tom Bombadil for hobbits!

[Stormcrow]

There was a temple to Iluvatar in Numenor. This is the only instance of "true" worship in all of Middle-earth. (And Sauron managed to turn the Numenoreans away from it.)

[Falconer]

See the link I just cited. That wasn’t a temple. “But there was no temple in Númenor (until Sauron introduced the cult of Morgoth). The top of the Mountain, the Meneltarma or Pillar of Heaven, was dedicated to Eru, the One, and there at any time privately, and at certain times publicly, God was invoked, praised, and adored: an imitation of the Valar and the Mountain of Aman.” (Letter #153.)

[llenlleawg]

It was a widely-held view among the Church Fathers and Medieval theologians, with whom Tolkien was familiar, that, after the Fall, man was in one sense "closer" to God in those early days than in these latter days, and that true worship did not require any revealed rites or ceremonies, nor a priesthood, temples, etc., but only a kind of spontaneous worship. However, on this same view, when men's hearts were darkened and they turned to false gods, to whom they erected idols and temples and practiced rites of various sorts, God in turn used those rites, cleansed of wickedness, to draw his chosen people back to himself (in the giving of the Law/Torah to Moses), and then fulfilling it in Jesus Christ.

I mention this not as a lesson in theology, i.e. I'm not asking anyone else here to believe this, but to note the background to Tolkien's view of the matter. Since Middle Earth represents a kind of legendary "pre-historical" vision of the world before and apart from any revelation, yet one which is meant to be in some sense in accord with that religion Tolkien held to be true (i.e. Roman Catholic Christianity), we can see that he would not want to include a religion, priesthood, temples, etc. among the good folk.

That said, there is no reason not to use the cleric class. Thematically, the idea that there is a power which watches over all and guides the paths of men (and elves, dwarves, and hobbits!), drawing good even out of darkest evil, is a crucial theme in the LotR. So, the idea of a man who can, by those same heavenly powers, drive off evil (i.e. undead) even as the light from the phial of Galadriel drove off Shelob, to be a source of healing and strength, a "light...in dark places, when all other lights go out," seems quite right.

[Deleted]

My take on it would be to make elves -- or at least some elves -- the clerics, without the weapon restrictions of course. Cleric spells seem to match up pretty well with elvish magic as I picture it, if you take out the spells with Old Testament overtones. Even turning the undead kind of fits.