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Post by simonw on Jan 1, 2012 4:53:04 GMT -6
So, it's the New Year (Happy New Year all!) and I need a new project. It's a western game, not Go Fer Yer Gun! (which was inspired by C&C) but using much more old "schoolness". At the moment it is intended to be loosely historical-ish (kinda like Backswords & Bucklers, but for the Wild West) but maybe I'll include elves & dwarves as it develops. Here's the first class:
THE SHOOTIST
The Shootist is a character that turns to the gun to get things done. He might be a lawman, an ex-soldier, a bandit leader or a gunslinger; whatever he is, he lives by the gun and will undoubtedly die by the gun.
Table 3: Shootist Advancement
Level XP HD (d6) To Hit Bonus Saving Throw
1 0 1+1 +0 14
2 1,500 2 +1 13
3 3,000 2+1 +2 12
4 6,000 3 +2 11
5 12,000 3+1 +3 10
6 24,000 4 +4 9
7 48,000 4+1 +4 8
8 96,000 5 +5 7
9 192,000 5+1 +6 6
10 384,000 6 +6 5
Shootist Class Abilities
Weapons: The Shootist can use any weapons
Sure Shot: The Shootist receives a +1 bonus to hit using one type of firearm, chosen at outset.
Gun-play: The Shootist gets one attack per level against foes of 1HD or fewer, each round if using a firearm.
Calculatin’ Eye: The Shootist can choose to weigh up the opposition at the start of a gunfight and make a saving throw to see if he can determine the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition (i.e. their level or HD).
Experience Bonus for Dexterity: DEX is the Prime Attribute for Shootists, which means that a high DEX score grants them an extra 5% or 10% experience.
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Post by snorri on Jan 1, 2012 5:03:52 GMT -6
Well done ! It fits the mood!
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Post by simonw on Jan 1, 2012 5:35:49 GMT -6
THE GAMBLER
The Gambler is a maverick and con-man; drifting from saloon to saloon to play cards or dice or place a wager on any one of a number of other contests. Cards are always the Gamblers first love though.
Table 4: Gambler Advancement
Level XP HD (d6) To Hit Bonus Saving Throw
1 0 1 +0 14
2 1,500 1+1 +0 13
3 3,000 2 +1 12
4 6,000 2+1 +1 11
5 12,000 3 +2 10
6 24,000 3+1 +2 9
7 48,000 3+2 +3 8
8 96,000 4 +3 7
9 192,000 4+1 +4 6
10 384,000 4+2 +4 5
Gambler Class Abilities
Weapons: Gamblers can use any weapons.
Sleight: Gamblers can manipulate cards, coins and other small objects deftly and, using misdirection, without being noticed. They can use this skill to pick pockets too.
Information Gathering: Gamblers hear two rumours in a saloon whenever a drink is bought.
Lucky Streak: Gamblers can re-roll any failed saving throw once per 2 levels per day.
Silvertongue: Gamblers have the gift of the gab – they can lie, cheat, bluff and swindle. They can use this skill to get out of tricky situations or to trick the gullible into doing something they wouldn’t normally do.
Experience Bonus for Charisma: Charisma is the Prime Attribute for Gamblers, which means that a high Strength score grants them an additional 5% or 10% experience.
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Post by simonw on Jan 1, 2012 5:36:26 GMT -6
THE OUTDOORSMAN
The Outdoorsman is a rough-and-tumble type of character that spends much of his time on the trail; he could be a drifter, a scout, a mountain man, a teamster or a cowpoke.
Table 5: Outdoorsman Advancement
Level XP HD (d6) To Hit Bonus Saving Throw
1 0 2 +0 15
2 2,500 2+1 +1 14
3 5,000 3 +1 13
4 10,000 4 +2 12
5 20,000 4+1 +2 11
6 40,000 5 +3 10
7 80,000 6 +3 9
8 160,000 6+1 +4 8
9 320,000 7 +4 7
10 640,000 8 +5 6
Outdoorsman Class Abilities
Weapons: Outdoorsmen can use any weapons.
Track: Outdoorsmen can spot and follow a trail across almost any ground. They can also recognize the prints of the critter that made the tracks.
Rowdy: When Outdoorsmen do come into town, things are apt to get a bit rough if they’ve had a drink or six. Outdoorsmen do d6 damage with their fists rather than d3 like everyone else.
Stealth: When in the wilderness, the Outdoorsman is skilled at using the terrain to move without being noticed by his prey.
Experience Bonus for Constitution: CON is the Prime Attribute for Outdoorsmen; which means that a high CON score grants them an additional 5% or 10% experience.Simon W
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Post by simonw on Jan 1, 2012 5:37:57 GMT -6
There are only these three classes (at the moment). I'm tinkering with them a bit, so they might change a little. I'll post up a pdf somewhere, when "Smith & Wesson" is a bit more developed.
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premmy
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 295
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Post by premmy on Jan 1, 2012 6:03:31 GMT -6
Is "shootist" actually a real word (outside that John Wayne movie)? It sounds silly to me, and I'd suggest replacing it with "Gunman", which is just as descriptive of what the class is about while sounding... well, less stupid.
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Post by simonw on Jan 1, 2012 6:52:11 GMT -6
shootist
noun
North American informal
a person who shoots, especially a marksman
(OXFORD DICTIONARY)
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Post by simonw on Jan 1, 2012 6:55:48 GMT -6
Is "shootist" actually a real word (outside that John Wayne movie)? It sounds silly to me, and I'd suggest replacing it with "Gunman", which is just as descriptive of what the class is about while sounding... well, less stupid. please don't suggest i'm stupid...  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 8:05:30 GMT -6
I did a formal research paper at University on the American Old West and came across the term "shootist" many times. I thought using that term imparted a good sense of what the class was supposed to be.
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Post by simonw on Jan 1, 2012 8:13:24 GMT -6
I did a formal research paper at University on the American Old West and came across the term "shootist" many times. I thought using that term imparted a good sense of what the class was supposed to be. Exactly. I was trying to avoid the gender implications of Gun man too (although, if anyone could help similarly with Outdoors man, I'd be happy!) |
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premmy
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 295
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Post by premmy on Jan 1, 2012 15:25:19 GMT -6
please don't suggest i'm stupid... I said the word is stupid, not you. Grow a skin, welcome to the Internet. You're a grown-up man, you make your own design decisions and don't need my approval. ;D I'm just pointing out that for the 95.5% of our species who are not US citizens will find the world quaint at best and much more likely assume it's grammatically incorrect. But hey, it's your product... |
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Post by simonw on Jan 1, 2012 16:27:52 GMT -6
please don't suggest i'm stupid... I said the word is stupid, not you. Grow a skin, welcome to the Internet. You're a grown-up man, you make your own design decisions and don't need my approval. ;D I'm just pointing out that for the 95.5% of our species who are not US citizens will find the world quaint at best and much more likely assume it's grammatically incorrect. But hey, it's your product... First of all you say a word is stupid. I don't quite understand how a perfectly good word that is in the Oxford Dictionary can be stupid. It isn't my fault you don't understand the word. Perhaps before you said it was a stupid word, you should have checked it up first?  Have a look here: www.legendsofamerica.com/we-johnwesleyhardin.htmlwargamesfoundry.com/historical_ranges/single_packs/old_west/cowboys/shootists_ow091/www.betterworldbooks.com/a-pair-of-shootists-id-0806141492.aspxThe word shootist is used a lot for a gunslinger/gunman. Secondly, in the context you said it, you implied that my using the word was stupid. There was a better way you could have approached your feedback - like "I'm not sure what a "Shootist" is, exactly. Perhaps "Gunman" be better?". Thirdly, I'm not a US citizen; I understand what the word means and it makes perfect sense for the class. Lastly, just shut up. |
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Post by thorswulf on Jan 1, 2012 17:34:46 GMT -6
What ever you do DON'T call them a gunsel! It has very bad connotations in it's original meaning.... On a different note, I have something I'd like to air out, vetch over and offer for consideration.
Hit Points based on level just DON'T work for me with firearms. My recommendation is have hit points equal to Constitution plus the roll of a die. The value of said die being dependant on the class. Keep all of the bonuses accrued to levelling up however. I'd also use "exploding" damage dice where you get to re-roll if you score a 6 on a D6 and add it together. This makes gunplay very risky as it should be, and at the same time make flesh wounds reasonable as well.
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 1, 2012 19:32:59 GMT -6
Simon, Go Fer Yer Gun is awesome and I'm really liking what you're doing with this. I think that the term Shootist is fantastic!  You get an EXALT for your work on this, although I'm thinking of moving it to the "Boot Hill" section just because it's Wild West. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2012 19:53:46 GMT -6
... if anyone could help similarly with Outdoors man, I'd be happy! Ranger? Guide? Scout? |
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 1, 2012 21:46:45 GMT -6
Hit Points based on level just DON'T work for me with firearms. Well, actually hit points actually can work pretty well if done right! In Go Fer Yer Gun (written to be similar to C&C) Simon capped HD off at 4 if memory serves me correctly. That gives some HD advancement but not so much as to totally unbalance the game. |
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Post by simonw on Jan 2, 2012 2:22:02 GMT -6
... if anyone could help similarly with Outdoors man, I'd be happy! Ranger? Guide? Scout? The trouble with all of those is that they are quite specific - I wanted the class to cover anyone who mainly lives out of doors - like prospectors, cowboys and teamsters. Outdoorsman works, but unfortunately is specifically male. I suppose mostly it would be men that do this stuff. |
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Post by simonw on Jan 2, 2012 2:32:35 GMT -6
Hit Points based on level just DON'T work for me with firearms. My recommendation is have hit points equal to Constitution plus the roll of a die. The value of said die being dependant on the class. Keep all of the bonuses accrued to levelling up however. I'd also use "exploding" damage dice where you get to re-roll if you score a 6 on a D6 and add it together. This makes gunplay very risky as it should be, and at the same time make flesh wounds reasonable as well. I'm trying to keep pretty much to the old-schoolness of Swords & Wizardry. If HP don't work for firearms then arguably they don't work for any weapon. It's the old argument against HP. A well placed sword is just as likely to finish you off as a well placed bullet - if you are looking at HP simply as your ability to survive wounds. If you look at it as the experience of a veteren to position himself so as to be harder to kill, or move just at the right moment and turn a gutshot into a flesh wound, then it still works. I will have a rule, like B&B's "Downright Blow" rule for injuries though, where firearms will be deadlier. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2012 5:11:23 GMT -6
Yeah, you're right. I additionally thought of "tracker" or "pioneer" but they suffer from the same problem. They're a bit too specific as to what the character does. If I think of something, I'll post it here.
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Post by simonw on Jan 2, 2012 5:57:06 GMT -6
Could be "Trailblazer" - not too specific and could be used for cowboys, teamsters etc as they "ride the trail"
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Post by kesher on Jan 2, 2012 17:38:49 GMT -6
Simon, awesome as always! How 'bout Mountain Man? Sure there's a gender specific term there, but I could see a Mountain Woman slapping people upside the head anytime someone mistook her for a man...  Unless I misread, it looks like everyone is proficient in all weapons; I'd be inclined to let Gambler only use pistols and knives, and MM/Outdoorsmen/whatever, use only rifles, knives, and axes, etc. Now I really want to make a female Mountain Man named Hilda with a rifle-barreled musket and a wood axe... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2012 19:53:41 GMT -6
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Post by simonw on Jan 3, 2012 0:55:36 GMT -6
Simon, awesome as always! How 'bout Mountain Man? Sure there's a gender specific term there, but I could see a Mountain Woman slapping people upside the head anytime someone mistook her for a man... Unless I misread, it looks like everyone is proficient in all weapons; I'd be inclined to let Gambler only use pistols and knives, and MM/Outdoorsmen/whatever, use only rifles, knives, and axes, etc. Now I really want to make a female Mountain Man named Hilda with a rifle-barreled musket and a wood axe... I'd already discarded Mountain Man, for much the same reasons as Pioneer earlier in the thread. In this case, it is too gender specific and too specific generally about the nature of the character. Outdoorsman includes Mountain Men and so much more besides (scouts, teamsters, trappers, prospectors, cowboys). No; it'll either be Trailblazer or I'll stick with Outdoorsman. Weapons? I suppose Outdoorsmen wouldn't use a derringer or pocket pistol - but I can't limit them beyond this because cowboys use pistols and rifles and teamsters would use shotguns. Maybe I'll put a note in that players should choose weapons that fit their concept of the character (a mountain man would use some large calibre single-shot thing (to bring dowen bears and the like) whereas a brave might use a tomahawk and a bow (or a musket). Gamblers get a bonus (x2 damage for surprise attacks) for using derringers or pocket pistols and so are not likely to have a rifle at a card game but I don't want to say they can't use them. |
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Post by simonw on Jan 4, 2012 12:12:47 GMT -6
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Post by stevemitchell on Jan 4, 2012 14:16:54 GMT -6
Great stuff, Simon. Exalt time!
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 8, 2012 11:15:13 GMT -6
Is "shootist" actually a real word (outside that John Wayne movie)? After reading this thread, I've been paying attention to the western series I'm reading (the Weird West books by Mike Resnick) and looking for "shootist." While I can't testify to the contents of book #1 of the series (read it before this thread) I can say that Resnick has used the term at least 3 times in the first half of book #2. |
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 8, 2012 11:18:02 GMT -6
Very nice. I give you an EXALT for this! |
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Post by simonw on Jan 8, 2012 12:25:33 GMT -6
Is "shootist" actually a real word (outside that John Wayne movie)? After reading this thread, I've been paying attention to the western series I'm reading (the Weird West books by Mike Resnick) and looking for "shootist." While I can't testify to the contents of book #1 of the series (read it before this thread) I can say that Resnick has used the term at least 3 times in the first half of book #2. I've been considering getting those books. Are they any good? |
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Post by simonw on Jan 8, 2012 12:28:41 GMT -6
Very nice. I give you an EXALT for this! I've noticed I left the bit about alignments in. I'll have to take that out. I'm considering a setting; Bodie, CA (now a ghost town) looks like a possibility. |
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Post by Sean Michael Kelly on Jan 8, 2012 16:28:12 GMT -6
I'm giving you an exalt even before I read it, just because it's formatted in booklet-size pages. :-)
The other thing, already commented on and discussed at length in any and every OSR forum, is the lethal-ness of any particular weapon. I've resolved to use exploding dice in most situations. (and/or on a natural 20, you get to roll the d30 for damage.) :-)
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You get an EXALT for your work on this, although I'm thinking of moving it to the "Boot Hill" section just because it's Wild West.
