[4E] The Generation Gap...

[kesher]

Heh. I just stumbled across this review of the D&D Essentials boxed set, and it pointed clearly to a generation gap that I haven't really bumped into yet, since I'm mostly playing with people my own age. I'm don't mean this negatively; I just find it fascinating.

My favorite quote:

The first thing I noticed about Essentials was its character creation process. I have honestly never filled in a character sheet with a pencil. Since I discovered D&D with 4e I have always had the benefit of the online character creator. I have to say there was something cool about filling in numbers and erasing mistakes.

I'm not sure quite how to process that...

[coffee]

I, conversely, was thrilled with the first computerized character sheet. (Not online; that would have to wait a decade or more.) Ah, the ease and convenience!

At the time, we predicted that someday all roleplaying would be done on a computer, perhaps on a local area network (which was something brand new and therefore utterly nifty at the time). Of course, we'd have to teach some of the players to type...

Ah, how little we knew!

[kesher]

Yeah, I remember trying and mostly failing to format a character sheet using some early, amber-screen-days DOS word processor...

I also actually enjoyed the 3e character creation software that was included on a cd-rom with the first printing of those rules. I just had never stopped to think that someone might be happily playing having NEVER handwritten a character sheet...

[Finarvyn]

Oct 15, 2010 13:04:29 GMT -6 kesher said:

I also actually enjoyed the 3e character creation software that was included on a cd-rom with the first printing of those rules.

I think this was one of the greatest things that came about with 3E. That and the fact that early printings of the Player's Handbook were entry-level cheap in cost.

As games become more complex, option wise, I would hope that more and more game designers make use of free character generation software. The 4E PH should have had one. I think that a lot of games would benefit by having software like this because it helps minimize prep time and helps everyone play without having to know all of the subtle details and picky rules.

Not that I don't enjoy running OD&D with notecard character sheets, but if I'm going to go modern I'd rather do it right!

[geoffrey]

I have honestly never filled in a character sheet with a pencil. Since I discovered D&D with 4e I have always had the benefit of the online character creator.

I have honestly never filled in a character sheet with a computer.

Hell, I've very seldom used a character sheet. We usually use a piece of notebook paper.

[kesher]

You gaming Luddite!

[Falconer]

I used to work in the advertising department at a newspaper. There was obviously a lot of concern, because everyone was abandoning print advertising and only advertising online. But it was predicted that although online is "hot" right now, eventually things will swing around, and print will be rediscovered as if it's a neat new idea. "Hey, we can get our ad on a piece of paper and into peoples' homes! How about that?"

I am constantly amazed that video games lost their nerdy stigma—nowadays, who doesn't play them?—yet D&D is still considered a sort of ultimate nerd lifestyle choice. WoW is an interesting case—it is mainstream, yet it is widely known, I think, to be addictive and to cause anti-social behavior. I have long thought that D&D will someday be "rediscovered" by the masses as a "new" phenomenon that's "like WoW but not anti-social!"

That's why I hope D&D stays true to what it is (or returns to its roots, if you will) rather than trying to be like WoW. I don't object to online/software character generators, as long as they are not necessary. "Ooh, I can make a character using only paper and pencil. Radical!" is exactly the sort of "novelty" that will ultimately draw them in.

[blackbarn]

I don't get the appeal of not using pencil. What do you do when information on your sheet changes? I mean, this happens a lot during the actual game!

[Finarvyn]

Oct 20, 2010 12:24:30 GMT -6 blackbarn said:

I don't get the appeal of not using pencil. What do you do when information on your sheet changes? I mean, this happens a lot during the actual game!

I think that the concept is that you can edit with pencil during the game session, but in between game days you get back onto the computer and update your character in the chargen software. Then you print off a new character sheet.

The more detailed the rules system, the more appealing this is to me. When I play OD&D (or S&W or C&C or ....) I can do it all on a notecard or 8.5"x11" notebook paper, but with 4E I'm a lot more comfortable using the software because I don't want to lose any hidden modifiers.

[kenmeister]

I used to play 3.5 with a guy who refused to have a printed out sheet, he kept it all on his hand-held.

[James Maliszewski]

Oct 16, 2010 7:56:01 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

As games become more complex, option wise, I would hope that more and more game designers make use of free character generation software.

Whereas my attitude is that any game whose rules are sufficiently complex that character generation software is actually a help isn't a game I have much interest in.

[James Maliszewski]

Oct 18, 2010 15:20:43 GMT -6 Falconer said:

That's why I hope D&D stays true to what it is (or returns to its roots, if you will) rather than trying to be like WoW. I don't object to online/software character generators, as long as they are not necessary. "Ooh, I can make a character using only paper and pencil. Radical!" is exactly the sort of "novelty" that will ultimately draw them in.

That's a fond hope I also share. My feeling has long been that RPGs, rather than chasing after fool's gold by accommodating their rules and presentation to a video game mentality, ought to be making themselves more unlike and indeed incompatible with computerization. The only hope this hobby has of ever again being popular in the mainstream is by differentiating itself from computer games (And movies. And TV shows. And books. And ...) in a substantial way. The more that RPGs try to sell themselves by claiming that they're "Just like [choose your favorite other form of entertainment] except ...", the more they're going to lose people's interest.

RPGs are a unique form of entertainment and I'm amazed at how poorly RPG publishers take advantage of this reality. It used to be, when I was a kid, that other forms of entertainment envied RPGs for their creativity, flexibility, and ability to engage the minds of their players. Thirty years later, the reverse seems to be true and RPG producers mostly seem to be envying movies and computer games and trying to find ways to better ape them. It is a recipe for failure, as the continued decline in mass popularity of tabletop RPGs makes plain.

[geoffrey]

Preach it, James.

RPGs cannot come within a million miles of competing with computer games and movies on the latters' terms.

Instead, RPGs can totally dominate their own niche by emphasizing how actively imaginative they are. You don't sit there and stare at some d**ned glowing rectangle. You engage your imagination and creativity at far higher levels.

[tombowings]

I think part of the problem, James, is that no one (at least that I've heard) has really been able to describe what an RPG is. And yes, this lends itself to the idea that roleplaying games an unique, that they aren't wanna be movies, computer games, board game, etc., and they aren't a combination of those either.

It very difficult to try and describe to a non-gamer exactly what a role playing game is. Just how its very difficult to example what a movie or novel is to someone who has never experience such as thing.

[robertsconley]

Oct 15, 2010 12:20:00 GMT -6 coffee said:

At the time, we predicted that someday all roleplaying would be done on a computer, perhaps on a local area network (which was something brand new and therefore utterly nifty at the time). Of course, we'd have to teach some of the players to type...

Ah, how little we knew!

It may yet come to pass if iPad format computers drop in price, increase in capability and get spread around. While I haven't gotten one yet I had several opportunities to play with one and it is very very good at what it does, (reading, movies, browsing, and music).

Already there are some small press publishers putting out RPGs that can be run solely from the iPad. It is an application that incorporates a browser for the rule book, and various aides including character/npc sheets. I believe it include a dice roller as well.

Then there is Microsoft Surface (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Surface) which I predict will make a major difference in gaming market in the long term. Imagine your table as a touch sensitive screen capable of displaying any board game, wargame, or roleplaying game.

I also predict that if surface computers become commonplace that surface aware miniatures and game pieces will also be out there. This will make is more appealing to those who want to actually touch things while playing.

Pure pen and paper games will still be out there. However they will be relegated to more simpler rule set like ...well.. older editions of D&D. People who like RPGs with a lot of tactical details will migrate to computer aided gaming. Even the pen & paper folks will see some impact like keeping your character sheet on a pad computer, using a surface for battlemats (if you use miniatures).

Finally material technology will make it possible to have a flexible surface. It will unroll with a small bar attached to one side with the CPU, drive, USB Ports and a power port. So you can lay your surface computer anywhere it is flat.

[jonathan]

Now instead of RPGs where you can play as cyborgs, we can play actual cyborg RPGs.