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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 24, 2008 20:20:09 GMT -6
I grabbed some of these quotes from my thread on Rafiel's Wayfarer's Inn boards. Hope nobody minds..... This would be Chainmail and pre-OD&D days from the Midwest Military Simulation Association (Minneapolis-St. Paul) and St. Thomas College, probably including most of the material in the FFC as well as the original version of the Valley of the Ancients. Probably this ectends as far as OD&D Supplement II. Greg Svenson said: My recollection is that we played out the original Valley of the Ancients adventure sometime during the 1973-74 school year or it might have been the following summer as we had moved our gaming from Dave's basement to St. Thomas College by that time and that was where we were when we played that adventure out. I moved away to Mankato in the Fall of '74, so it should have been before that.
My recollection of the geography is a bit fuzzy. What I remember is that the Valley of the Ancients was southwest of Blackmoor, which basically fits where it is in the current maps; but I don't remember much of the details of the other geography in that direction. The geography south of Blackmoor has been radically altered from the original setting to keep it compatable with the varous settings Blackmoor has been placed in since then. Bob Meyer said: This is about what I remember. My character Robert the Bald started in Blackmoor and ended up in the area called The Dragon hills on the present maps. At the time there were no Dragon Hills and the Valley of the Ancients seemed to be further away. It was just a wilderness that we had to explore. Perhaps I was just relocated closer when the present maps were made. Greg Svenson said: In the "Twin Cities Era" you refer to the game as being "Chainmail and pre-OD&D". I am probably out of touch with current thinking on these things, but we were using much of what was in those three little books long before they were published.
We had a player (Bill Heaton) advance a level in the very first adventure. There were only three levels at the time: flunky, hero and super hero. We were all flunkies at the start. He became a hero when he mastered the magic sword we found during the adventure. I don't remember when the level advancement became one level per new hit dice and we were never really sure how far along we were in getting to the next level, Dave kept track of our experince and let us know when we moved up.
Because you died when you were hit in Chainmail, we were using damage dice, hit dice and armor classes within about a month of our starting to play Blackmoor (winter of 1970-71). Dave Arneson told me he based the armor class system on an American Civil War Ironclad game, although I can not tell you what game it was at this point, though.
I don't remember exactly when we starting rolling for our character attributes (str, dex, con, int, wis & appearance rather than chrisma, as I recall), but it was before the summer of 1972, because I remember using them at that time. We were only using two d6 so the range was only 2-12, however. We didn't have our own character sheets. Instead, Dave kept an index card on each of us with our stats, experience and possessions. We had the card during the gaming session, but we returned it at the end of the game.
I think that the the only time we used pure Chainmail after the first few weeks was when we were doing mass battles. Even then we adjusted it to use the damage dice and hit points for each PC, so it was not really pure Chainmail anymore.
It seems to me that the transition from our home game with Dave's rules to play testing the OD&D rules was a pretty minor transition. Hardly noticable... |
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Post by Falconer on Feb 11, 2008 0:25:36 GMT -6
Hey Finarvyn, I’m not sure listing “1970” in this board’s title is quite fair. You may as well list 1940 for Tékumel, or 1912 for Barsoom!
I think it should be “The First Fantasy Campaign (1977)” after the published book that opened up that world and its gaming inspiration to the rest of us. Just a thought. Regards.
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Post by Finarvyn on Feb 11, 2008 10:32:03 GMT -6
Noted and edited; I had problems trying to figure out what date to use, since most sources are pretty vague. I finally picked 1970 because the First Fantasy Campaign said that the dungeons of Castle Blackmoor were put together in the winter of 1970-71.
I suppose I could put in (1974) in honor of the Blackmoor supplement. The Temple of the Frog would be the first published account of Blackmoor, right?
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Post by gsvenson on Feb 11, 2008 11:34:55 GMT -6
Yes, alas, we had the first adventure in the Blackmoor dungeon over the Christmas break of 1970-71, but nobody remembers which weekend, so I couldn't even tell you which year it happened in.
Dave Arneson tells me I was the third DM, after himself and Gary. I ran a adventure for Bill Heaton (the Blue Rider) and Mel Johnson (Mello) sometime during the fall of 1972 (nobody remembers exactly when) using Dave's notes. I built a city, called Tonisborg, complete with a dungeon and a network of catacombs, during 1973 and ran many adventures there and all around the Blackmoor area in 1973 and 1974 using the play test rules for the original three little books and then the published books. Tonisborg was located approximately where Vestfold is on the current Blackmoor area maps, for anyone who is interested.
I loaned my materials to one of the other guys in 1980 so he could run an adventure for a new gaming group and never saw them again. He just said he lost them. Oh well...
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Post by Finarvyn on Feb 11, 2008 12:05:24 GMT -6
I loaned my materials to one of the other guys in 1980 so he could run an adventure for a new gaming group and never saw them again. He just said he lost them. Oh well... Lost them? This is the point where the villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches start to storm the castle…. |
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Post by gsvenson on Feb 11, 2008 14:29:54 GMT -6
I loaned my materials to one of the other guys in 1980 so he could run an adventure for a new gaming group and never saw them again. He just said he lost them. Oh well... Lost them? This is the point where the villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches start to storm the castle…. Yes, I was pretty upset, but there was really nothing I could do about it... |
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Post by doc on Feb 11, 2008 18:05:59 GMT -6
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd love to hear more about Tonisborg and it's surrounding areas.
Doc
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Post by coffee on Feb 12, 2008 1:36:20 GMT -6
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd love to hear more about Tonisborg and it's surrounding areas. Doc I definitely would! |
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Post by gsvenson on Feb 12, 2008 8:04:33 GMT -6
I wish I could regale you with stories, but I am afraid that I don't remember much. Bob Meyer had to remind me last Spring that I had DMed many of his adventures when we were roommates in '73 & '74. I am afraid that Bob, Dave Meggary and the Snider brothers probably have clearer memories of it then I do.
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Post by robertthebald on Feb 12, 2008 10:38:22 GMT -6
Unfortunately I preferred going out into unexplored and wild areas to being near the cities, so I don't know very much about Tonisborg.
Bob Meyer
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darneson
Level 3 Conjurer
Co-Creator of OD&D
Posts: 56
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Post by darneson on May 22, 2008 18:37:03 GMT -6
Yes Bob and that is why I had to do all those encounter charts.
"The best laid plans of players and DM s are for naught."
Plan on them turning right and they are bound to go a different direction not always left ether!
Dave Arneson
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Post by havard on Jun 6, 2008 7:43:31 GMT -6
I wish I could regale you with stories, but I am afraid that I don't remember much. Bob Meyer had to remind me last Spring that I had DMed many of his adventures when we were roommates in '73 & '74. I am afraid that Bob, Dave Meggary and the Snider brothers probably have clearer memories of it then I do. Greg, even re-creations of Tonisborg (Maps etc) would be of interest at this time. (*hint* *hint*)  If Tonisborg was to be put back into the current maps, but I'd want to keep Vestfold, where would be an acceptable alternative location for it? How about somewhere on the Northern Shore of the Black Sea (what I presume to be Frisia...)? Havard |
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darneson
Level 3 Conjurer
Co-Creator of OD&D
Posts: 56
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Post by darneson on Sept 30, 2008 20:42:16 GMT -6
Good news. Greg is preparing maps etc of his castle. Not just the dumpy little freehold in FFC. He is looking for a publisher. We are also checking with WOTC to see if there is a problem. Although I don't know why there would be.
As we hear more we will keep everyone posted.
Dave Arneson
"Dark Lord of Gaming"
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