Origin of the phrase "Role-playing game"

[Deleted]

I was re-browsing my OD&D pdfs and noticed that, as far as I can tell, there is no mention of D&D as a "role-playing" game, at least in those terms. I have come to dislike the phrase "role-playing game" because what that means today is much different than what I think was originally intended.

Also, as a personal preference, there is something more dignified in playing a "fantasy game" as I would much rather call it, than playing a "role-playing game". Perhaps it is simply the connotations that have been built-up over the years as to what an RPG is, but I'm not sure.

Does anybody else smell what I'm stepping in?

[Deleted]

Yes and to go with that a poster over at DF I believe it was Tim Kask - just a minute - yes it was Tim Kask said:

kaskoid wrote:

PS—I also don’t like being branded as OSR. Dictionary.com defines revival as:
1.restoration to life, consciousness, vigor, strength, etc.
2.restoration to use, acceptance, or currency: the revival of old customs.

I have never been anything but proudly Original School, by choice and by design; no restoration needed, thank you very much.

Which I fully agree with and I like the term Original School better than old school. So combining what he said with what you said I come up with - Original School Fantasy Gaming. I like that and that is what I do in my games I play the Original School Fantasy Game now called "Original" Dungeons & Dragons to differentiate it from all other D&D.

[Melan]

This has come up before; apparently, the term first appeared in Alarums&Excursions (and rapidly became included in TSR terminology).

[DungeonDevil]

I would use the term fantasy wargaming, or to better shield myself from any hostile glances, non-historical wargaming.

[gloriousbattle]

Reminds me a little of a few of the old grogs on The Miniatures Page, who game with historical miniatures, and you'd better not tell them they're playing with toy soldiers!

Similar, I know guys who like the term Victorian Science Fiction Gaming, but take umbrage at Victorian Adventure Gaming. This one I never quite figured out.

I do believe that Adventure Gaming has always been runner-up for the slot that Role Playing Game eventually came to fill.

[tavis]

In the intro to his Braunstein game at Gen Con, David Wesely talked about pushing for Adventure Gaming as the name for this new thing. His point was that role-playing games already meant a number of things in the 1970s, including an actor's exercise for improv training and a psychotherapeutic technique. I didn't know that it was Alarums & Excursions that initiated the term, though.

[talysman]

Aug 24, 2011 11:17:46 GMT -6 tavis said:

In the intro to his Braunstein game at Gen Con, David Wesely talked about pushing for Adventure Gaming as the name for this new thing. His point was that role-playing games already meant a number of things in the 1970s, including an actor's exercise for improv training and a psychotherapeutic technique. I didn't know that it was Alarums & Excursions that initiated the term, though.

Yeah, I've thought for a while that the unfortunate selection of "Roleplaying" as the term for what we do has caused some problems because of overeager attempts to link roleplaying games like D&D to roleplaying games in improv or psychotherapy.

There are still to this day a large group of people who think you aren't playing right if you aren't speaking in character and making character decisions based entirely on imagined motivations of the character. That's certainly a valid way to play and fun for some people, but the term "roleplaying" wasn't originally meant to be interpreted that rigidly.

And I think the early tales about people getting lost in their characters or becoming unhinged were fueled, in part, by the imagined psychotherapy connection. I distinctly remember warnings about D&D based on the claim that roleplaying is a powerful psychological technique that should not be used in a game.

Adventure gaming is my favorite replacement term, but I know that practically, there's no point in trying to replace "RPG" as the preferred term.

[ralph]

Aug 24, 2011 8:56:41 GMT -6 gloriousbattle said:

Reminds me a little of a few of the old grogs on The Miniatures Page, who game with historical miniatures, and you'd better not tell them they're playing with toy soldiers!

They're all just dolls really!

I much prefer the term adventure game to role-playing game and I always wince when I see a PC game described as an RPG. That is too much of a stretch.

[jjarvis]

Aug 24, 2011 8:56:41 GMT -6 gloriousbattle said:

I do believe that Adventure Gaming has always been runner-up for the slot that Role Playing Game eventually came to fill.

I like the term "adventure gaming" myself but I realized why a generally young male audience wouldn't have liked Fantasy Adventure Gaming years ago.

It's easy to be a RPG-enthusiast but there's a lot more to explain when one claims to be a f*g-enthusiast.

[talysman]

Aug 24, 2011 12:47:11 GMT -6 jjarvis said:

Aug 24, 2011 8:56:41 GMT -6 gloriousbattle said:

I do believe that Adventure Gaming has always been runner-up for the slot that Role Playing Game eventually came to fill.

I like the term "adventure gaming" myself but I realized why a generally young male audience wouldn't have liked Fantasy Adventure Gaming years ago.

It's easy to be a RPG-enthusiast but there's a lot more to explain when one claims to be a f*g-enthusiast.

Yeah, but the women could be f*g-hags.

[gloriousbattle]

Aug 24, 2011 12:18:46 GMT -6 talysman said:

And I think the early tales about people getting lost in their characters or becoming unhinged were fueled, in part, by the imagined psychotherapy connection. I distinctly remember warnings about D&D based on the claim that roleplaying is a powerful psychological technique that should not be used in a game.

There are people who just love to get upset, aren't there?

I wonder if my grandkids www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeGBM_2wdgk are aware that they are wrongly using this powerful psychological technique. ;D

[gloriousbattle]

Aug 24, 2011 12:31:26 GMT -6 ralph said:

Aug 24, 2011 8:56:41 GMT -6 gloriousbattle said:

Reminds me a little of a few of the old grogs on The Miniatures Page, who game with historical miniatures, and you'd better not tell them they're playing with toy soldiers!

They're all just dolls really!

Hey!

Aug 24, 2011 12:31:26 GMT -6 ralph said:

I much prefer the term adventure game to role-playing game and I always wince when I see a PC game described as an RPG. That is too much of a stretch.

Yeah, same here. I see my little lead men as adventurers, not actors.

[Deleted]

I remember years of floundering to come up with "a name for this hobby". "Adventure gaming" was tried, but it just never really caught on. A&E may have been the source of "Role Playing Games" as a title, but it didn't come into general use until the late 70s or early 80s.

[tavis]

I noticed last night that the 1976 "Monsters, Monsters" calls itself a roleplaying game. (I have the reprint but am pretty sure it's that way in the original too.)

[howandwhy99]

Post WWII role playing came to be understood more along the lines of role playing simulation in the States. There was no role playing outside of Europe before the war to my understanding. The military took up military simulation in a big way afterwards and by the 50's so had business and educational fields.

My guess is the term found its way to D&D through the military personnel who played it and thought that's what they did in the corps. Before the late 70's-early 80's role playing was largely understood as performing a social role with an alternate persona being largely the purview of theatre. So much so RP was considered different than theatre and acting. Nowadays distinguishing between living honestly and acting is entirely arbitrary and devoid of any meaningful distinction. Sort of like telling the truth or lying.

I consider my own game a reality puzzle game. The scope of the game for each player is their chosen role or class, but performing as anyone but themselves is unnecessary. Needless to say it's a contentious statement in some circles.

[kesher]

I consider my own game a reality puzzle game. The scope of the game for each player is their chosen role or class, but performing as anyone but themselves is unnecessary. Needless to say it's a contentious statement in some circles.

As always, h&w, an incredibly thought-provoking statement... I Exalt Thee for it!

[havard]

Aug 24, 2011 2:00:54 GMT -6 Melan said:

This has come up before; apparently, the term first appeared in Alarums&Excursions (and rapidly became included in TSR terminology).

Alarms & Excursions?

Do you (or anyone else) have a date for this term?

Is Holmes the first rulebook using it?

-Havard

[Zenopus]

See these previous threads discussing this topic:

grognardia.blogspot.com/2011/02/terminology-question.html
www.acaeum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10584

Summarizing:

Men & Magic has: "Before they begin, players must decide what role they play in the campaign, human or otherwise, fighter, cleric, or magic-user." (pg 6).

Alarums & Excursions is an APAzine that started in the 70's. From irbyz's (harami/faro) comments it sounds like the usage there is unconfirmed/apocryphal.

Holmes may have been the first D&D rulebook to use this term (I'm not sure about this), but it was preceded at least Strategic Review #7 (April 1976), Dragon #1 (Jun 1976), and Metamorphosis Alpha (1976). There's also an Owl & Weasel (White Dwarf predecessor) usage from April 1976:

""It is a multi-player role-playing game vaguely similar to Dungeons & Dragons, comprising only of a rulebook and played with pencil, paper and dice." - En Garde! review (SJ); O&W #15, 4/76"

[havard]

Thaks Zeno!

-Havard