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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 5, 2011 8:48:24 GMT -6
I'm not trying to divide a discussion between here and Knights & Knaves, but the background discussion and some meanderings can be found in a thread I started there. In reading the World of Greyhawk books, it's had an immediate effect on me (once getting past the very whimsical "Trees" section) in that the history of Greyhawk reads like a series of wargames that Gary and et.al. played. I've been wanting to do something similar for my campaign, but include the PCs into the battle. Reading the WoG books made me realize I can add a new dimension to my campaign - wage war without the PCs. There is enough going on in my world that the PCs don't have to assemble to participate. If I can get one or two opponents, I can run a nice little scenario that is shaping up right now in my campaign. Which brings me to the point of thinking that Chainmail may suit me just fine. While the humans will be facing orcs and goblins, I don't see that as a particular problem. The fantastic creatures would only be possibly magicians/witch doctors on the side of the orcs, but they would be limited in what they could do by virtue of my campaign. Orcs are going to have a ton of cavalry. Humans will be a combination of light foot levies from the town, some established troops (Heavy foot) and some cavalry and knights. A few bowmen. I've been looking for guidance on how to construct a scenario, what information has to be put together. I'm not sure if there's a checklist or guide on how to do that, on terrain setup and the like. This isn't going to be point-allocated army, more of "what would be available given the surrounding lands and types", so it is likely the side of the humans are going to be quite outnumbered. How have you incorporated Chainmail mass combat into your RPG campaigns? I'm not talking about simulating combat in OD&D using CM, I mean actually running wargame events with the outcome affecting the RPG campaign. Almost like how I imagine some Chainmail battles affecting Greyhawk or Blackmoor...
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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 5, 2011 13:18:39 GMT -6
These are some random notes and links to those trying to figure out how medieval armies were organized. Some interesting stuff. Looks like the basic unit was a group of 20 men (go figure! ;D) and 5 of these were commanded by a "squire". A knight could run up to 10 squires. www.hyw.com/books/history/Recruiti.htmen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infantry_in_the_Middle_AgesI'm still working on generating numbers, although I've got the basics of the area around Enonia figured out, in terms of population. I've done some demographics on my campaign "home base" (Enonia) and calculations including NPCs that have been in the campaign that would affect troop composition: So my possible roster for Enonia the city seems to shape up as: - levies; trained town militia and town guard (includes archers) - levies; semi-trained archers and men-at-arms) - Nobility and house leaders performing required service as Knights for Marshall Roehm - Gentry/Citizens assigned as Knights performing required service for Marshall Roehm - Marshall Roehm's men-at-arms, professional force from the Kingdom - Sir Reynald's personal guard and entourage of Knights - Sir Reynald's cavalry, professional force from the Kingdom - Sir Reynald's men-at-arms, professional force from the Kingdom - Mercenaries (trained archers and men-at-arms) I'm going to have an insanely wandering blog post on this tomorrow afternoon, but here's a tentative roster of potential combatants, depending on the scenario: In the case of a quick response, we could see: Town Militia (3 figures - 1 heavy archer/2 heavy foot) Sir Reynald's Knights (1 figure - heavy horse) Sir Reynald's Cavalry (2 figures - medium horse) Sir Reynald's Men-at-arms (2 figures - 1 heavy archer/1 heavy foot) In the case of some notice, like a few days, add: Marshall Roehm's Knights (1 figure - heavy horse) Marshall Roehm's Cavalry (1 figure - medium horse) Marshall Roehm's Men-at-arms (4 figures - 2 heavy archers/2 heavy foot) Mercenaries (3 figures - 1 light archer/1 light foot/1 heavy foot) In case of a war with enough notice (a month or so) and call up, add: Town Levies (12 figures - 6 light foot/6 light archers) That's quite a roster given enough time. But I'm seeing units shape up and how this would play out. Neat! Now on to figure out how many orcs and goblins there are...
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Post by tavis on Apr 5, 2011 17:53:20 GMT -6
I didn't use Chainmail, but rather Delta's Book of War - deltasdnd.blogspot.com/search?q=book+of+warHowever the general principle of using mass combat to resolve situations the PCs weren't getting involved in, but some players were interested in playing out, was a great experiment; we all got more insight into the local politics and military situation, and it was really fun for me to just set up the scene and then referee it without playing a side. Here's the writeup: redbox.wikidot.com/storming-the-volcano
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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 5, 2011 19:03:22 GMT -6
tavis - awesome writeup. This is very similar to what I have envisioned in the "stronghold" portion of my campaign for these particular PCs. How were you able to referee it without being the forces of Chaos? Was it because it had nothing to do with the PCs so they played both sides? I would have to play the forces allied against the humans, unless one of the players was feeling particularly evil that day I'm OK with that, as I've proven my neutrality with regards to monsters already. I'm looking forward to Delta releasing his book someday. In the meantime, if Chainmail doesn't cut it, I have other options to investigate - a skirmish game one of my players likes is Songs of Heroes & Blades (I think that is what it's called) and I will be purchasing a book called "Games of War" that might have some ideas.
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Post by thorswulf on Apr 5, 2011 21:59:35 GMT -6
Its song of blades and heroes, but close enough! For what it is worth, Orcs and goblins pretty much become their human equvilants in chainmail, so the fantasy stuff may be less important, except for morale values.
Regarding figure types, it really depends on where in the Flanaess you are. Everything from dark ages barbarians to rennaisance knights will do depending on what kingdom they're from. I have so many loose figures for these general time periods myself that I could probably field a pretty ecclectic army! As far as size of troops, I'd be a tad more generous with peasants and militia,as they are the basis of a feudal army. Knights get the glory but some poor mucker with a shield and spear does all the dirty work. Also check out Barony Miniatures, this is One of Heritage Miniatures original designers doing his own work!
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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 6, 2011 7:57:21 GMT -6
thorswulf - that's the direction I was heading in. I'm focusing on numbers right now, to determine the pool available to set up various scenarios from. I'm probably going to settle on 11th through 13th century figures for humans. I'm still trying to figure out how to do horse-mounted orcs.
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Post by Stormcrow on Apr 6, 2011 8:50:18 GMT -6
As far as size of troops, I'd be a tad more generous with peasants and militia,as they are the basis of a feudal army. Knights get the glory but some poor mucker with a shield and spear does all the dirty work. Don't forget about the suggestion in Chainmail that peasants tend to stand around while the knights decide the battle, then the losing side gets butchered by the winners. I don't know how historically accurate it is. Naturally, in a fantasy world your peasants are only as timid as you make them.
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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 6, 2011 9:00:45 GMT -6
Stormcrow - I saw that and was mortified/amused at the mental image of a peasant picking the dirt from under his fingernails and wondering if Sir Brutus was done yet... In my campaign, most of the peasantry/farmers around Enonia have fled the area thanks to the lack of support from King and Marshall. That's why 12 figures (240 men) is accurate for Town Levies (with a population of ~ 3,000, a 10% levy with the 60 accounted for as Heavy Foot/well trained and 240 as Light Foot/not so well trained) but not for surrounding country side. I have a blog post coming out this afternoon that lays out the numbers for the entire Enonian area (which is half a 30mi hex)
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Post by tavis on Apr 6, 2011 10:23:43 GMT -6
How were you able to referee it without being the forces of Chaos? Was it because it had nothing to do with the PCs so they played both sides? Yes, the reason we wargamed this one was that the players hadn't gotten their PCs involved. They gained some meta-knowledge of the situation, but that wasn't a problem (as they gained this info in-character from the survivors of the forces they're friendly with) and was a benefit (as it made the world seem more real and deep).
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Post by ragnorakk on Apr 6, 2011 13:22:40 GMT -6
I played a game of OGRE against the players as a part of a Traveller game (their planet being invaded, them defending) and it was a really good time. The result of that battle would have ramifications in the Traveller game whichever way it went (players won, as it turns out). I ended up devising the unit disposition based on my assumptions of the numbers present, like you are doing with your knowledge of the population & power structures of Enonia. It was a fun side game.
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Matthew
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Master of the Silver Blade
Posts: 254
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Post by Matthew on Apr 7, 2011 23:03:58 GMT -6
Don't forget about the suggestion in Chainmail that peasants tend to stand around while the knights decide the battle, then the losing side gets butchered by the winners. I don't know how historically accurate it is. Naturally, in a fantasy world your peasants are only as timid as you make them. It is right out of The Once and Future King by T. H. White, so not very. That said, peasants likely did suffer the brunt of medieval warfare, just typically not on the battlefield.
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norse
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
And it's cold, so cold at the Edge of Time.
Posts: 233
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Post by norse on Apr 8, 2011 3:55:34 GMT -6
Don't forget about the suggestion in Chainmail that peasants tend to stand around while the knights decide the battle, then the losing side gets butchered by the winners. I don't know how historically accurate it is. Naturally, in a fantasy world your peasants are only as timid as you make them. Yeah... Not very accurate. Although like most things it depends on place and time. The French almost throughout the period, for example, tended to settle major battles almost entirely through massed knight. But a lot of minor and strategic actions (blocking fords and bridges, raids and scorched earth etc) would have been fought by the lower classes and mercenaries. Also it's incorrect to think in just terms of Nobility and Peasantry. Feudal society was exceptionally complex and there were plenty of classes between the two. And several below peasant too. Peasant militia wouldn't have achieved much more than standing in place and blocking bits of ground off. But plenty of professional soldiers that could in no terms be called Nobility would be making use of crossbows and polearms with great efficiency. Then you move to other countries. England's mass use of the longbow from the mid period onward. Welsh and Scottish armies made of a mixture of professional and unprofessional soldiery, but all experienced. Etc etc. Also, I hope those massed and unproductive troops are starting to feel the effects of hunger. Sounds like no-ones producing any food and armies march on their stomachs
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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 8, 2011 7:10:31 GMT -6
norse - the total available forces number no more than 10% of available population, so yes, there are plenty of harvesters in the field.
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Post by thorswulf on Apr 8, 2011 10:10:24 GMT -6
As far as mounted orcs go, it really depends on what you have for figures. I game in 25/28mm mostly. If you have older figs, you might be able to just swap wolves or boars or whatever for horses, add some skulls and green stuff furs to hide the gaps and call it good. In 15mm you could probably do the same thing, just use some appropriate horses.
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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 8, 2011 10:16:08 GMT -6
As far as mounted orcs go, it really depends on what you have for figures. I game in 25/28mm mostly. If you have older figs, you might be able to just swap wolves or boars or whatever for horses, add some skulls and green stuff furs to hide the gaps and call it good. In 15mm you could probably do the same thing, just use some appropriate horses. I'm started from scratch with the orcs. :/
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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 8, 2011 11:14:23 GMT -6
So here's my "test" scenario... silly little battle, not very many figures involved, but enough to see how this goes: Scenario Goblin Raid on Enonia, Fall 46 AD.
The goblins approach and harass the town to cover a raid on food supplies stored north of the town. These forces were sent by Grimthack as "expendable" and to delay or stop the Enonian forces from attacking the forces carrying off the food.
The Enonia Town Guard was notified early in the morning by frightened farmers who reported goblins setting fire to buildings and killing several farmers and family members while stealing livestock. They in turn alerted Marshall Roehm at the keep, who assembled the active Town Guard members, a group of cavalry and his own men to march on the goblins and drive them away.
Minimum victory conditions for the goblins: - Survive for 10 turns (is this too easy?) OR - Prevent at least 50% of Enonia forces from exiting the goblin side of the board.
Minimum victory conditions for Enonians: - Move at least 50% of his forces off the board on the goblin's side OR - Destroy/drive off the goblins in under 10 turns.
Enonia forces
Town Militia (3 figures - 1 archer/2 heavy foot) Marshall Roehm's Knights (1 figure - heavy horse) (commander) Marshall Roehm's Cavalry (1 figure - medium horse) Marshall Roehm's Men-at-arms (4 figures - 2 archers/2 heavy foot)
Goblin forces: 200 goblyns (10 figures, 3 are crossbowmen) 5 leaders, 20 assistances (2 figures)
Grunt's Goblins - 5 figures of goblin fighters 1 figure of leader - orc
Crunk's Crossbows 3 figures of crossbowmen
Garth's Goblins 5 figures of goblin fighters 1 figure of leader - orc
Thoughts? I wonder if this is going to be too quick or too easy, but I'm also just learning how this all works. The Marshall's forces are all at least 1/2 armored (the heavy horse will be considered full armored, medium horse and heavy foot are half armored, town guard and archers are unarmored) and so are the goblin forces - the nonarchers are 1/2 armored (including the leaders). The goblins have a bit of advantage on numbers, but disadvantaged by the lack of cavalry.
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Matthew
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Master of the Silver Blade
Posts: 254
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Post by Matthew on Apr 8, 2011 12:08:37 GMT -6
You know... it would be possible to run a scenario like this online as a play by post.
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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 8, 2011 12:14:37 GMT -6
You know... it would be possible to run a scenario like this online as a play by post. I think you made my brain melt. How could we do that?
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Matthew
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Master of the Silver Blade
Posts: 254
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Post by Matthew on Apr 8, 2011 13:35:07 GMT -6
Well, all you really need is a way of representing the game pieces on a virtual map, and the most basic way of doing that is via Microsoft Paint [i.e. something I have been experimenting with]. Probably Gimp would be better on the whole with its layers and objects, but I would have to figure that out. Anyway, a gridded paint shop battlemap (like graph paper, basically) would give you the starting point (choose a size, draw on major features) and then each side would deploy his forces on his half of the map. Then it is basically turn by turn, move/counter move (or if you can think of a double blind method, such as using a game master, the all orders can be written ahead of time and emailed to him).
Then you just use Invisible Castle to handle all the rolls, be explicit about what you are moving and update the map, taking into account missile and melee casualties. There would be problems (representing turning, for instance), but it would be generally workable, I think. The units can be marked to identify them.
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Post by cooper on Apr 8, 2011 13:42:11 GMT -6
Unless your scale is 1:1 the leaders are not figures, they are subsumed in your troops and add a +1 to the die rolls.
1:20 scale.
5 units of HF goblins vs HF roll 5d6/6
With a 4th level or greater hero they would roll 5d6/5-6.
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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 8, 2011 13:57:36 GMT -6
With all due respect, cooper, I believe it's both. I believe the key words are "unit" and "figure". Unit as defined on page 9: "group of figures of like type" and figure to represent 1:20, which in my mind indicates that the army commander *can* be represented by a figure, possibly his guards and retinue. If the army commander is within formation (close?) with a unit (thus becoming part of the "body of troops"), he becomes part of the formation and suffers the fate of that unit. He can leave the unit (he and his 19 other high-tailin' buddies) and go seek out some other guys to hang out with. In my roster for the goblyns, I've got two figures representing the 2 goblyn leaders and their guards. It's less than the 1:20, but I think I'll be forgiven that.
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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 8, 2011 14:03:08 GMT -6
Matthew - that's something to chew on. Very interesting proposal, sir.
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Post by cooper on Apr 8, 2011 14:09:12 GMT -6
I agree after a fashion Matthew. A 4th level hero and 8 2hd bodyguards (or a few more or less) can be a unit. As I believe two 5th level fighters are 1 unit in 1:10 scale, or 4-5 ogres are 1 unit in 1:20 scale.
Is that what you mean?
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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 8, 2011 14:12:39 GMT -6
I agree after a fashion Matthew. A 4th level hero and 8 2hd bodyguards (or a few more or less) can be a unit. As I believe two 5th level fighters are 1 unit in 1:10 scale, or 4-5 ogres are 1 unit in 1:20 scale. Is that what you mean? Uh, did you mean Matthew or me? I'm assuming you're meaning my post. That's not what I mean. The leader type (in my scenario roster) is a figure representing the commander and his men at 1:20 scale - he's got guards and lieutenants and such fighting with him. He's not at hero/superhero level at all. There's nothing in the Army Commander section that indicates such is required.
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Matthew
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Master of the Silver Blade
Posts: 254
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Post by Matthew on Apr 8, 2011 14:22:29 GMT -6
Matthew - that's something to chew on. Very interesting proposal, sir. Yeah, I have been thinking about it for Swords & Spells and perhaps War & Battle as well, hard to find enough time in a single block to play a scenario these days! Uh, did you mean Matthew or me? I'm assuming you're meaning my post. That's not what I mean. The leader type (in my scenario roster) is a figure representing the commander and his men at 1:20 scale - he's got guards and lieutenants and such fighting with him. He's not at hero/superhero level at all. There's nothing in the Army Commander section that indicates such is required. There is a bit of a controversy over the 1:1, 1:10 and 1:20 scales and how the Fantasy Supplement interacts with them, largely stemming from a quote from Gygax that indicates heroes were not meant for anything other than 1:1 scale. In fact, Gygax played a scenario a few years before he passed away using 1:10 or 1:20 scale with heroes and all, so I would not put too much credence in it. Either way you end up doing it is probably fine, after all Chain Mail is not a perfect reflection of AD&D by any means! ;D
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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 8, 2011 14:26:11 GMT -6
Yeah, I have been thinking about it for Swords & Spells and perhaps War & Battle as well, hard to find enough time in a single block to play a scenario these days! I'm wondering if the time required would be prohibitive though, what with moving tokens around. Still, dammit, I'm chewing on it... Using a graphics editor with layers would be very useful. There is a bit of a controversy over the 1:1, 1:10 and 1:20 scales and how the Fantasy Supplement interacts with them, largely stemming from a quote from Gygax that indicates heroes were not meant for anything other than 1:1 scale. In fact, Gygax played a scenario a few years before he passed away using 1:10 or 1:20 scale with heroes and all, so I would not put too much credence in it. Either way you end up doing it is probably fine, after all Chain Mail is not a perfect reflection of AD&D by any means! ;D I have read the Dragonsfoot account of the Moatbridge battle and it seems like they shifted from 1:1 to 1:20 pretty seamlessly. That's the fun part of trying these things out - see what works, and keep what does. I rather enjoy that you have room to flex things (ala HOTT). The other bit is that these goblins can be treated like humans at 1:20 scale, since there's nothing fantastic about them and they don't require resolution on the Fantasy Combat table. So to me, the leader question is more of using a figure to represent the leader and his retinue and his ability to merge with units to rally them or improve their odds.
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Post by cooper on Apr 8, 2011 17:25:35 GMT -6
WAR GAMING FROM DAY 1. 1st level fighter buys chain armor, sword, shield and rolls 3d6x10 for wealth. Let’s say 120gp. A 1+1 veteran can only lead 20 men anyway, so he hires with his remaining 70gp twenty heavy foot men at arms for 1 month. He has 10 gold peices left to spare.
legion: bandits! leader: veteran 1+1 # & type: 20 HF (1:1)
Through clever tactics he loots a small dungeon of 2 levels and defeats an orc tribe 100 members (waiting for 50% of the orc fyd to leave on a pillaging expidition of their own). Average gold of a 1st level dungeon is 48 gold and the 2nd level is 195 gold. The orc tribe was worth 500 gold and 150 xp alone from the 15 fyd orcs that were at the cave that were slain in combat. After one month our new veteran has amased 743 gold and about 1000 xp. He gives a years salary to the families of the 10 slain men which knocks him down 300 gp, but keeps morale high, forks over another 60 gp for 20 men in the 2nd month which leaves him with a net profit of 383 gp and halfway to 2nd level...
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Matthew
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Master of the Silver Blade
Posts: 254
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Post by Matthew on Apr 9, 2011 15:48:05 GMT -6
I'm wondering if the time required would be prohibitive though, what with moving tokens around. Still, dammit, I'm chewing on it... Using a graphics editor with layers would be very useful. I would certainly be willing to give it a go. I have read the Dragonsfoot account of the Moatbridge battle and it seems like they shifted from 1:1 to 1:20 pretty seamlessly. That's the fun part of trying these things out - see what works, and keep what does. I rather enjoy that you have room to flex things (ala HOTT). The other bit is that these goblins can be treated like humans at 1:20 scale, since there's nothing fantastic about them and they don't require resolution on the Fantasy Combat table. So to me, the leader question is more of using a figure to represent the leader and his retinue and his ability to merge with units to rally them or improve their odds. Exactly so, and of course the Battle of Five armies in Dragon shows this was not limited to recent years.
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Post by chicagowiz on Apr 10, 2011 19:34:27 GMT -6
(Please forgive the cross posts between here and K&K - there seem to be Chainmail experts everywhere! ;D) Today, I solo-gamed the Chainmail scenario from above. In truth, I didn't want to wait to finish painting minis - so the forces of weal are in black and the forces of woe are my regular D&D goblin miniatures. I used some of the terrain I have for 25/28mm DBA or HOTT and a 15mm building that I recently traded for. It was mainly for looks. Like my green grass $1.50 table cover from Walmart? *grin* It protected the table from getting scraped by lead minis and it serves as grass. The green areas are woods, the brown is rough/buildings. The goblins need to survive 10 turns or keep less than 50% of the troops from exiting on the goblin's side. The Enonian troops need to get 50% of their forces to the other side or completely wipe out the goblins. (pic above) Turns 1 and two saw the forces close. Grunk's foot (1 unit goblin foot (HF)) and Crunk's bows (1 unit goblin archers) are facing down the Enonian Town Guard (1 unit Heavy Foot (HF), 1 unit Archers) and Marshall Roehm's knights and cavalry (1 unit Heavy Horse (HH), 1 unit Medium Horse (MH)). Grit's foot (1 unit goblin foot) are sneaking around the trees. The goblins hope pull the humans towards the bow, who will pull back (or be sacrificed) (pic above) The horse charge! Now we come to our first question - if a unit is charged by two separate enemy horse units, do I perform one charge morale check, or two? I ruled two, as there would be two separate melees involving the charging and charged. Surprisingly, the goblins held morale against BOTH! This was a bad sign... Grunk's foot move forward to engage as well. The Med. Horse draw first blood in killing a figure of archers. (the red token denotes which unit was killed. Later, I just started replacing the units killed w/tokens until the turn was over and casualties removed.) (pic above) Now we come to our next question. The figure of Weal (to the left) is the Heavy Horse. Grunk needs four figures in the front rank (the way I read the rules from page 15 ("Number of Ranks Fighting: 1 rank.") but he has only three. The HH was attacking the Goblin Archers (and didn't score a single kill - this was the theme for the forces of Weal, unfortunately). Now, according to pg 16: "After the first round of melee excess troops (figures unopposed by an enemy directly before them) from the flanks or from rear ranks may be moved so as to overlap the enemy formation's flanks and even rear if movement at onehalf normal will allow." (pic above) So I ruled that the one goblin to left in the rear could move up to the front rank (it was within the half move requirement) and therefore supply the fourth figure needed to fulfill the requirements for HF to attack HH. The more I read/reread the above rule, the more I think I'm correct in what I did, in the actual move. The real question is if that move puts that 4th figure in melee, due to the angle. Grunk's foot are at an angle to the HH, even though they're a unit and technically in melee. There's nothing in the rules that says all figures in a unit have to be touching or square to the target. (pic above) Unfortunately, this proved to be Roehm's downfall as the heavy foot scored the six needed to kill the Heavy Horse! (pic above) Turn 3 was a combat heavy turn! We had a total of three rounds of combat, at end of which the Heavy and Med Horse obliterated the goblin's archers, but it was a heavy price for Enonia as the Marshall fell! (And thus we have an interesting history now to the downfall of Marshall Victor Roehm's father...) (pic above) The Medium horse is fatigued and does an about face to not be subject to a rear charge. Grunk's forces do a right face (half move) and move into melee, ruled as a flanking attack since the MH was caught in formation change by melee. The first round is a wash, as the MH scores no hits, but then the rear ranks can move their half move to form a line to overlap at the flanks. I'm not sure if I need to put the figures in line like above or actually make an open box around the unit? As you can see, that excess troop rule really caused me some fits. The ensuing fight, with the goblins fighting the fatigued MH, saw the cavalry killed. (pic above) Meanwhile, Grit's goblin foot were bearing down on the Enonian town guard. Thinking they were within range, the archers moved very little, but were out of range to fire! The forces of Grunk had been retreating to the woods to come around hopefully after the archers were engaged, but they were never fired on. Meanwihile the Enonian HF slowly approached the goblins, hoping the archers would even the score, but the goblins countered by charging into melee. The goblins killed a figure of HF and forced the Enonian's back. (pic above) Turn 6 was the final turn in combat. The archers did an oblique turn, which lead me to my next question... for a line or column, is the oblique turn considered a "wheel" if the troops are in line/column, or are the figures simply rotated 45deg and you must measure out the final remaining move, moving some figures less to keep the final line intact? I ruled the latter and it was a pain, but it made sense. The about faces and right/left faces afford no implicit movement, so why should the oblique? I made a mistake here and allowed the archers to have a pass-thru fire. Oops. Stationary archers only! However, this brought up another question - if the target of missile fire is considered fatigued, do they defend at the lower armor level for missile fire? I ruled no, as it didn't seem to make sense. However it didn't matter in the end. The archers were able to kill one figure of Grit's troops but they closed to melee with the outnumbered Town Guard HF. This leads to my final question - can troops within 3" be drawn into a melee, but not have enemies in front, thereby act as excess and flank after the first round? Or would they be drawn into the melee and attack separately? (see above - the archers slightly behind the HF could be drawn into the melee as they are within 3"). I wasn't sure, so I said "Attack separately" and figured I'd ask later. Besides, the forces of Weal needed *something*, however it didn't matter. The archers and goblins meleed to no casualties on either side. The melee between goblins and HF saw three goblins killed, but 1 human HF killed. Now both units would require casualty morale checks. The goblins were forced back two moves but the Enonian HF failed their morale check and were removed. This meant that the Enonians couldn't possibly move 50% of their troops off the board, and the odds looked dim for the remaining archers. They chose to flee in a rout and the goblins were victorious! The forces of woe jeer the humans as they flee for their lives, dispirited over the loss of old Marshall Roehm and the near entire destruction of their forces! Whew! The scenario itself is a tough one for the humans to win. The humans rushed their approach and the horse units were sucked into the goblin's trap with the archers as bait. It was also a lucky roll that the HF killed the HH, but that's how battles are lost and won. I'm really looking forward to trying this again with some players from the Dark Ages campaign. I created some Chainmail aids that were invaluable. I put play/rule summaries and charts on two sheets of paper and if it wasn't for rules questions, I could have run the game from them. I also created unit records that summarized each unit's "stats" much like a character sheet - as well as their fatigue status, which helped! I'm going to continue using these, with a couple of minor tweaks. I was very satisifed with my experience with Chainmail! The questions I had weren't basic questions, at least I don't think they're so basic. I even didn't mind the post-melee morale math, as it went pretty quickly once I had the hang of it. Combat was quick, brutal and I liked how melees were resolved one way or the other and then the next turn progressed. I was also careful to note that casualty morale takes place at the end of the TURN, not the melee ROUND - as multiple rounds of melee can happen depending on the post-melee morale checks. So to reiterate the questions: 1. If a unit is charged by two separate enemy horse units, do I perform one charge morale check, or two? ( I ruled two.) 2. Is there any limits to how a unit must be formed up against the opposing unit to be in melee? Is it enough that one figure of a close-formed unit is in melee distance therefore all elements are in melee? ( I ruled there is no limitation. I couldn't find anything explicit in the rules.) 3. With the excess troop rule on pg. 16, do the rear/excess figures need to form an open square to flank/rear or can they join the front line rank? ( I ruled they merely joined the front rank, since the situation in question, the units were attacking in flank.) 4. For a line or column, is the oblique turn considered a "wheel" if the troops are in line/column, or are the figures simply rotated 45deg and you must measure out the final remaining move, moving some figures less to keep the final line intact? (I ruled the latter). 5. If the target of missile fire is considered fatigued, do they defend at the lower armor level for missile fire? (I ruled no.) 6. Can troops within 3" be drawn into a melee, but not have enemies in front, thereby act as excess and flank after the first round? Or would they be drawn into the melee and attack separately? (I ruled attack separately.) Now off to paint me some Enonian troops.
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arcadayn
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 236
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Post by arcadayn on Apr 11, 2011 7:58:42 GMT -6
Are you guys familiar with the VASSAL Engine? It's basically an online board/tabletop for wargames. There are hundreds of games that already have modules for it. Best of all, it's free! I'm not sure if they have Chainmail as I'm at work and can't access the web site. www.vassalengine.org
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