Roleplaying in Oz

[Finarvyn]

I've never read the Oz books, but my family is totally bonkers over Wicked and I've thought about running an Oz game for them for some time. I know that Zorcerer of Zo is out there and it looks interesting, but its "unofficial" status always put me off a little. On the other hand, ZoZ looks like a simple system and the rulebook is not too large.

A list of the Oz books by L. Frank Baum:
1: The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
2: The Marvelous Land of Oz
3: Ozma of Oz
4: Dorothy and The Wizard in Oz
5: The Road to Oz
6: The Emerald City of Oz
7: The Patchwork Girl of Oz
8: The Little Wizard Stories of Oz*
9: Tik-Tok of Oz
10: The Scarecrow of Oz
11: Rinkitink In Oz
12: The Lost Princess of Oz
13: The Tin Woodman of Oz
14: The Magic of Oz
15: Glinda of Oz

More to the point of this post, I was in a local gamestore and found this:


[glow=red,2,300]Oz: Dark & Terrible[/glow]
Apparently it's one of those "it's not a kid's world anymore" type games. I picked it up and have only thumbed through it briefly, but here are some initial thoughts:

Bad:
1. Hardback, so kind of expensive. Interior line art okay, but I'd have pait a little more to have a color interior. Somehow color just "fits" Oz better.
2. I've never heard of the "Balance System", which is apparently the core rules that OD&T is using. This means I would have to learn a new game.

Good:
1. Neat concept, the "dark and terrible Oz" thing. Reminds me a little of the "fairy tales gone wrong" games.
2. Nice color fold-out map.
3. Seems like it could be a good sourcebook for an Oz camapign. Has an extensive history, some NPCs, some monsters, nation information, etc.
4. use of actual L. Frank Baum names (e.g. "yellow brick road") make it a more "legit" product.

---------------

So... anyone ever run an Oz game? If so, what rules set did you use? Anyone ever heard of or actually play Oz: Dark & Terrible?

Discuss....

[Falconer]

This looks promising.

[Falconer]

The easiest approach might be to start with standard OD&D characters, and at some point they enter a portal in the underworld or whatever and find themselves in Oz. That way you don’t have to worry about system, or the implications of having children and animals as PCs, just worry about presenting some fun adventuring possibilities in that world. Not saying it’s necessarily better, but definitely easier.

[bluskreem]

A few months ago I got my wife "Adventures in Oz: Fantasy Roleplaying Beyond the Yellow Brick Road" off Lulu. We haven't actualy played it, but it looks like a pretty neat game.

The character creation is very fexible. the book gives you templates to modify, or allows you to build a character from scratch. Both methods are very simple, and allow for some pretty varied characters. Want to play a Parakeet? No prob. gruff Soldier? Simple. Child, Duke, or living mannequin? Easy as pie. I think the author did a great job creating a system that can accommodate for nearly any character seen int he books. By default magic isn't open to PC's, but it can be if the Narrator allows it and there are rules for several kinds of magic seen in the books (Including the Humbug magic of the Wizard.)

The system is pretty simple (2d6 under skill,) but unfortunately the system reads very 'post D20' (modifiers, Opposed contest, Simple contests, extended contest, and a far to elaborate combat system for my tastes.) It's still a very nice system, but it's aesthetically unappealing to me. I suppose that is the cost of modern games. My favorite Mechanic was the way they handled experience points however. Xp is gained by helping friends and can be spent improving rolls, or for summoning friends to aid in a situation. It's a neat mechanic and very thematically appropriate.

The bulk of the book consists of a nice over view of Baum's Oz. important locations are described and each is provided with a couple of story ideas set in them (and in most of them they give some new character creation traits to reflect the residence.) there is also a section on creating your own realms and kingdoms in Oz which is nice. It should be said that these realms stay pretty true to Baum, and might seem a little (or a lot) childish, but the game is aimed at fans rather then trying to alter the setting for modern tastes.

All and all I'd recommend it. fdouglaswall.blogspot.com/



I also remember playing in a Changeling the dreaming Oz game once, based off some one's web page, but it was quite a while ago and I can't seem to be able to find it right now so it may be lost.


Edit: Slowest ninja ever. I was actually looking for the book so I could review the system when Falconer posted.

[terje]

Dec 6, 2010 0:15:12 GMT -6 Falconer said:

The easiest approach might be to start with standard OD&D characters, and at some point they enter a portal in the underworld or whatever and find themselves in Oz. That way you don’t have to worry about system, or the implications of having children and animals as PCs, just worry about presenting some fun adventuring possibilities in that world. Not saying it’s necessarily better, but definitely easier.

Yes, OD&D adventures in Oz could be great fun (flying monkeys! ;D ), and perhaps one could visit Wonderland and Never-Never-land as well.

And one could easily have children and talking animals as pc's, theres no reason why your fighter or magic-user couldnt be 10 years old or furry and four legged. If you want to reflect this in the game mechanics, make ac and strength one or two steps lower. Halflings can be made into Munchkins.

[Finarvyn]

Dec 6, 2010 0:15:12 GMT -6 Falconer said:

The easiest approach might be to start with standard OD&D characters, and at some point they enter a portal in the underworld or whatever and find themselves in Oz. That way you don’t have to worry about system, or the implications of having children and animals as PCs, just worry about presenting some fun adventuring possibilities in that world. Not saying it’s necessarily better, but definitely easier.

Yeah, that tends to be the way I run most crossover games. I start with OD&D and tweak the rules to fit the new setting.

[geoffrey]

I've had a D&D Oz idea in my head for at least a year. Of course it's an unimaginably brilliant secret.

[thegreyelf]

I'm always late to the party. I have been thinking about an Oz RPG forever. Seems I thought about it too long. Ah, well.

I saw "Oz: Dark and Terrible" as well just this weekend. Book looks very pretty (and I wasn't turned off by hardcover, as I dig hardcovers). The system seems a basic "roll fistful of dice, add mods, total, compare to a TN" system. What turned me off was that it said you need "at least" 10d10.

That's too many dice for my tastes, for a basic task resolution system.

[aldarron]

Maybe its because I have read a couple of the books and seen some of the film adaptations (other than the famous one), but I can't imagine Oz as anything other than a childrens setting. You would have to radically alter the types of characters and the geography itself to get anything approaching a challenge for adults. Peronally, I think HR Puffinstuff and Living Isle could more easily be adapted to an adult game....

[Falconer]

“When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” — C.S. Lewis

[thegreyelf]

Love it, Falconer. Having just read most of the original Baum series, I disagree entirely with the assertion that it is nothing but a children's setting not suited to challenging adults. Heck, at one point there is open warfare between Oz and the forces of the Nome King. Let's also not forget that the Tin Woodsman became that way because his cursed axe forced him to cut off every single one of his own limbs, one at a time.

...or the fact that in the original Wonderful Wizard of Oz, the Emerald City is actually made of granite, but everyone is forced to wear emerald-colored glasses so they THINK it is made of emeralds. It's only later on in the books that Baum retconned it to actually be made of emerald.

Make no mistake, there's a lot in the original Oz books that appeals to grown-ups. Indeed, there's a surprising amount of stuff in many children's books that appeals to adults (and is intended to do so).

[jasons]

I'm not sure what would happen if John Carter got sucked to Oz in some Martian twister, but I'm pretty sure it would involve radium-burned monkeys falling from the sky and wicked witches getting swords to the face!

[talysman]

I dunno. Is Aldarron saying that Oz should only be used in games for children, or that Oz doesn't really work as a "dark" or "adult" setting, because it just doesn't feel right when you change it that way?

I mean, look at how bad Tin Man was. PJ Farmer's A Barnstormer in Oz wasn't quite so bad, but that's possibly because he only made Glenda "adult", giving her access to a more Buffy-esque style of magic.

And false teeth.

[thegreyelf]

Todd McFarlane's Twisted Oz series was pretty sweet, however.

[Finarvyn]

Hmmm. I'm not familar with Farmer's book or McFarlane's Twisted Oz. Must google for a while....

[thegreyelf]

McFarlane's was a series of action figures, each of which included a tiny portion of an overall story with it.

[aldarron]

Dec 13, 2010 20:12:15 GMT -6 talysman said:

I dunno. Is Aldarron saying that Oz should only be used in games for children, or that Oz doesn't really work as a "dark" or "adult" setting, because it just doesn't feel right when you change it that way?

I mean, look at how bad Tin Man was. PJ Farmer's A Barnstormer in Oz wasn't quite so bad, but that's possibly because he only made Glenda "adult", giving her access to a more Buffy-esque style of magic.

And false teeth.

Both really. Frankly, its pablum in my opinion. I mean, talking saw horses, little girl heroines, cowardly talking lions, cardboard societies easily dubed by a fast talking hokum from kansas in a world where laws can be passed that nobody is allowed to die. And then there's munchkins... Like Narnia and Smurfland its great fun for kids but not the sort of gritty stuff worthy of an adult campaign world except in a completely gonzo, not to be taken at all seriously kind of way.

No doubt you could round up a group who would want that kind of game so I shouldn't say that its not suitable for adults, but I wouldn't be interested personally.

Sure, you can toss out the overtly kiddie stuff and completely rework some of the rest to have a more substantial adult character but I don't see the point. It wouldn't be Oz anymore but some kind of comic gothic echo. Again I'd guess some folks would like that but to me it would always seem like a joke, like playing MERP but replacing Aragorn with Batman and making Sauron the Penguin or some hybrid like that.

<shrug>

There's just a ton of really good settings out there; some really good stuff posted in this forum even, so other than using it as a setting for preteens - which would probably work great - I'm not seeing the value in trying to make Oz an adult campaign world except, as I said, as a kind of joke.

If its just wicked withcehes in castles surrounded by haunted forests your after, you can get that without all the other trappings.

[thegreyelf]

Aldarron, have you read anything beyond the first Oz book? I only ask because many of your assumptions really don't agree with events that happen beyond that work.

[Falconer]

Wow, see, I definitely take Narnia seriously. More seriously than I take RPGs, for sure.

[thegreyelf]

I just picked up Oz: Dark and Terrible. I am only a few pages into the intro fiction right now; I'll post a more detailed review when I get through it. The fiction so far is standard moderate-talent fare game fiction. It tries to be very clever....by giving us a story about a bunch of gamers transported to Oz via an earthquake which destroys a convention that is definitely NOT Gen Con.

There is a severe overuse of gerunds and participial phrases such as, "Walking into his cottage, Nick left the group staring after him."

Punctuation is rather poor...the story really could've used an editor. It's not awful to read, but not entirely impressive, either.

Indeed, the further I read into the fiction, the worse the writing got. The designer is REALLY not a good writer of fiction at all. He enjoys progressive-tense as much as Stephanie Meyer enjoys adverbs.

We'll see soon how the take on Oz is. I'm not writing the book off based on the intro fiction. Few good game designers are also good writers of fiction.

[Finarvyn]

Jan 3, 2011 11:20:34 GMT -6 thegreyelf said:

Punctuation is rather poor...the story really could've used an editor. It's not awful to read, but not entirely impressive, either.

Indeed, the further I read into the fiction, the worse the writing got. The designer is REALLY not a good writer of fiction at all.

Agreed. I thought the book was interesting in spite of the fiction, not because of it. The basic concept for a twisted-Oz game seemed pretty cool, but I'm not so much into those "gamers from our world thrown into the game world" appraoch anymore. I mean, it was fresh back in the 1970's with Quag Keep (another mediochre book) but is pretty overdone by now.

[thegreyelf]

Agreed to an extent, but given that this is an Oz game, I would expect or ask for no less. Oz isn't Oz without someone from our world dropped feet-first into it.

[Deleted]

First of all, thanks for expressing interest in Adventures in Oz. I wrote it and it's always nice to see people buying it who I haven't personally pestered into buying it.

I'm sorry you didn't care for the combat rules, bluskreem. That was one of the things I spent the most effort on, because I knew a more traditional approach to combat just wouldn't have felt as Ozzy. Though of course, you guys are probably more interested in bringing Oz into your Old School games, so my combat rules might not matter as much to you.

I have run Adventures in Oz for kids and adults and both groups had a pretty good time. I think the key to running it for adults is letting them be adults. If they want to explore politics, sex, violence or any number of other adult topics in the setting, let them.

And also, don't view comedy as pure slapstick. This isn't Paranoia, where the whole party can die on the way to the bathroom (I've seen it happen). One of my favorite characters from my Oz playtest game was a comedy character who knew his joke and was good at it, rather than being a simple bumbling boob.

For Old School style gaming, I'd suggest the Wicked books, as they even have mentions of elves and dwarves, and you could easily use halflings for Munchkins. And they do include death and aging and violence and politics.

Oz: Dark & Terrible might be a book you'd be interested in, as the setting is intended to appeal to Wicked fans (I get the distinct impression it's trying to be an unlicensed Wicked RPG as published by White Wolf). But the system seems overly complex, so doing a rules swap to your favorite Old School system would probably be best and shouldn't break the flavor of the setting significantly.

My main caveat is that you shouldn't expect D&T to be a dark setting. It's got lots and lots of grey (which is good for a setting), but very little actual dark. And it looks like they're trying to be both adult (Yay! Sex and violence!) and adult (well-reasoned) and wind up having those two elements clash.

I did a more detailed review of Dark & Terrible as a podcast:http://adventuresinoz.podbean.com/

[krusader74]

Over here in this post I tried to show that HPL's DWH is an adult variation on Baum's WoO.

[Falconer]

I would also just like to mention L. Sprague de Camp’s “Sir Harold and the Gnome King.” It has been many years since I read it, but, it seems to me, like many Harold Shea stories, it could easily be mined for an adventure. For that matter, the third book, Ozma of Oz, is pretty D&Dish.