essential references for dungeon designers

[jasons]

To help keep OD&D alive and kicking through the 21st century, I thought it might be good to put together a syllabus for a hypothetical university-level course on RPG adventure writing from an old school perspective. There is so much material out there, and so much of it expensively collectible, the aspiring scenario designer may be hard pressed to catch up with the best and most important material of the past several decades. Perhaps we could collectively separate the wheat from the chaff and boil down some kind of semi-definitive list to guide the writers of tomorrow. I was recently informed that The Lichemaster (a Warhammer FRP module from the 80s) is one of the best modules ever, an assertion that left me feeling at a loss, having only vague memories of seeing it in a magazine ad somewhere long ago. If only I'd gone to D&D university! Leaving aside rule sets, what published adventures/source books should be required reading?
For starters:
Griffin Mountain by Jaquays, Stafford, Kraft: an exemplary sandbox, greater than the sum of its parts (which are frequently excellent). It'd be pretty concise too, if not for the 3e-sized Runequest stat blocks.
Both McKinney's Carcosa and Conley's Majestic Wilderlands would also merit attention under the sandbox category, as well as being object lessons in the use of rules-as-toolkits.
What others?

[aldarron]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I can see the utility of discussing the structural aspects of module and setting design but picking a list of greatest hits seems too much a matter of personal preference, <shrug>.

[fnast]

From a strict (A)D&D/TSR perspective...

Whether you ultimately embrace them or not, as an old-school designer you should have a working knowledge of these modules:

B1 In Search of the Unknown
B2 Keep on the Borderlands

G1 Steading of the Hill Giant Chief
G2 Glacial Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl
G3 Hall of the Fire Giant King

D1 Descent Into the Depths of the Earth
D2 Shrine of the Kuo-Toa
D3 Vault of the Drow

S1 Tomb of Horrors

T1 Village of Hommlet


Some other contenders by style:

Gygaxian
S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth
WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun

Funhouse
S2 White Plume Mountain
C2 Ghost Tower of Inverness

Narrow Sandbox
I1 Dwellers of the Forbidden City
L1 Secret of Bone Hill

Plot Driven
N1 Against the Cult of the Reptile God
U1 Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh

Tournament
A4 In the Dungeons of the Slave Lords
C1 Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan

Transgenre
S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

[Finarvyn]

This is a great thread!

Sept 11, 2010 20:21:05 GMT -6 jasons said:

To help keep OD&D alive and kicking through the 21st century, I thought it might be good to put together a syllabus for a hypothetical university-level course on RPG adventure writing from an old school perspective.

Leaving aside rule sets, what published adventures/source books should be required reading?

I know that you wanted to set aside rule sets, but for a true “hypothetical university-level course” I think you would first look to all things early-Gygax.
1. AD&D 1E Dungeon Master’s Guide - to me, this is the "bible" for game masters
2. TSR Monochrome modules – B1, G1, G2, G3, D1, D2, D3, S1, S2, T1, C1. You don’t need all eleven, just a couple to use as examples.
3. Two “how to” books by Gary, Role-Playing Mastery and Master of the Game - these are interchangible in my mind and provide general RPG wisdom

I have a few other resources on my shelf that I’d include, in no particular order.
1. Robin’s Laws of Good Game Mastering (Robin Laws; Steve Jackson Games)
2. GameMastering Secrets (Aaron Rosenberg; Grey Ghost Press)
3. Gamemaster Law (ICE Games) – this is for RoleMaster, but good anyway
4. Nightmares of Mine (ICE) – this one is horror specific
5. Play Unsafe (Graham Walmsley)
6. Sorcerer & Sword (Ron Edwards; Adept Press) – some love him, some hate him, but this is a classic “how to” sourcebook for pulp “swords & sorcery” gaming

Note that other than the monochrome modules, I’d avoid having lots of modules to look at. Most of my best gaming was done with home-made adventures rather than professional modules. Too many professional adventures are text-heavy and tend to guide players in a somewhat linear path in order to follow a pre-determined storyline.

In “general” there is a thread on the Top 30 Dungeons of All Time according to an article in Dungeon magazine a few years back.

In “gaming in Lake Geneva" there is a thread on Who is the greatest Dungeon Designer of All Time.

I should think that both of those threads would help your mythical syllabus a bit. ;D

[Deleted]

d**n. Fin, you are a god! Can I drop by to read in your library?

[Finarvyn]

Just been collecting for a long time, and hoping to pick up new tidbits all the time. I happen to like "how to" books about DMing.

[jeffb]

I'd add to the list of "must know/required reading" modules

B4 The Lost City
X1 The Isle of Dread

And for a "funhouse" my own tastes run to X2 Chateau D' Ambreville (Castle Amber) though I love the two previously mentioned as well (especially Inverness)

[jeffb]

And considering other sources

Definitely ANY of the early RuneQuest Material-

Borderlands
Pavis
Big Rubble
Cults of Prax (if even for showing how mechanics and world material can be written as one without over/de emphasizing either)

[Finarvyn]

I agree with your module additions, Jeff. (At least the TSR ones. I haven't seen the RQ mods.) The problem with using too many modules as examples for a “hypothetical university-level course” is that people tend to copy instead of innovate.

At least, that's what my instincts as a teacher for 23 years tell me.

If I tell you "Gary used Alice in Wonderland as an inspiration for a module", that may be more useful than actually showing you the module. With the idea a designer might now wonder "now, what other sources could I borrow from", but with the physical item in hand I suspect many designers would tend to follow the cookie-cutter type pattern instead and crank out a bunch more just like it. One is special, but a dozen isn't so much.

My thought was to follow the lead of the original post and list general resources for dungeon design rather than too many specific modules. That's why I cut off my list with the monochromes, so as to avoid making exhaustive "best ever" lists.

Just my own interpretation, of course. Jason may have been looking for a list of modules, since he cites Griffin Mountain, Carcosa, and the Majestic Wilderlands in his post.

[geoffrey]

If we are looking for modules that typify old-school dungeon design, I think the single best one for that purpose is Rob Kuntz's Bottle City. After all, it is a huge dungeon level in the dungeons of Castle Greyhawk, written in 1974 by Gary's co-DM. It doesn't get more old school than that.

[slade]

Snakepipe Hollow

[jasons]

slade: You're darn right, Snakepipe Hollow, the other Caves of Chaos.
Finarvin: Thanks for your input as well as expanding the topic from exemplary modules to other works on the subject. Many on your list are new to me and I will try to check them out.
Geoffrey: The Bottle City also typifies what is so frustrating about trying to familiarize oneself with the great adventure writing of RPG history in that, after a brief googlefest I must conclude that I probably won't be seeing a copy. What D&D University needs is some kind of theft-proof online library!

[tavis]

Fin, I ditto the recommendation of Play Unsafe as a GM theory book. It's more of an improv guide, though, while dungeon design implies pre-planning. I don't think the two are opposed - my Blackmoor Dungeon runs at Gen Con greatly benefitted from ten levels of intricate & complex dungeon maps to give events a rigorous structure, while the extremely minimal key proved to yield some really satisfying improv invention on the spot.

However, I do think that, even if this ideal of dungeon design was achieved in 1970-71, there is room for improvement in the presentation a dungeon designer uses to present ideas to the reader.

Caverns of Thracia is generally held by those who played through it in my New York Red Box campaign to be the greatest dungeon ever. But for me, the process of running it was:

- read it over multiple times
- redraw the maps to get a sense of their connections, including things not included in the original (but added to the d20 version) like notes on which dungeon key number each staircase leads to
- make lists of the monsters and treasure so I could gauge how many reinforcements were available, how much wealth players might accumulate, etc.
- write a page for each different faction in the dungeon so I could track their strength, things they knew about, areas they controlled, etc.

Even without getting into the additional possibilities of technology (e.g. having the dungeon open on a laptop at the table), I think that the process by which the dungeon design is transferred to the mind of the DM could be improved.

I also think the process by which the dungeon is facilitated in play could be improved. Wouldn't it be awesome if, for example, the whole dungeon was presented in a three-panel DM screen, with stuff that the players might see (like the random encounter tables, c.f. Delta's experience that presenting these to players ratchets up tension) on the outside and stuff that the DM keeps secret on the outside.

Right now I'm finding Apocalypse World inspiring - the idea of fronts and threats is explicitly designed to support improv DMing, and the playbook presentation is a laudable stab at making the game objects useful at the table in a different way.

Note that I think the graduate-level syllabus should explore in depth the relationship between improv play and planned design. I think the tools for improv play developed by Arneson et al. are much more perfected than the modules that exemplify planned design. Maybe this is just because a random table is a lot simpler than something like Keep on the Borderland or Village of Hommlet, which does generate excellent play for referees who know how to use improv, but only if they are high enough level to stuff the module's telegraphic complexity into their brains.

I think the skills involved in both are related but not identical; Gygax and Bledsaw seem to me excellent at both making random tables and at designing modules, while I find Hargrave's improv tools much more satisfying than his published dungeons.

[Finarvyn]

Sept 12, 2010 17:03:16 GMT -6 tavis said:

Fin, I ditto the recommendation of Play Unsafe as a GM theory book. It's more of an improv guide, though, while dungeon design implies pre-planning. I don't think the two are opposed - my Blackmoor Dungeon runs at Gen Con greatly benefitted from ten levels of intricate & complex dungeon maps to give events a rigorous structure, while the extremely minimal key proved to yield some really satisfying improv invention on the spot.

Agreed. In re-reading my post I realize that my list is more of a "how to DM" list, compared to a "how to design a dungeon" list. I suspect that several of the books I mentioned aren't so useful in dungeon design.

Another one (which I don't own) comes to mind: doesn't Troll Lord Games have Engineering Dungeons? I'll bet that one is well done!

[philotomy]

Sourcebooks and Tools

• TSR Dungeon Geomorphs
  
• Kellri's CDD#3 Dungeon Geomorphs
  
• TSR Monster & Treasure Assortments
  
• Kellri's CDD#4 Old School Encounters Reference
  
• 1e AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide (used as a sourcebook, not necessarily a rulebook)
  
• Gygax's Master of the Game
  
• Gygax's World Builder
  
• Dungeon Alphabet - This may not have a lot to offer old hands, but it's a fantastic book for someone new. I gave my copy to my teenage son, and it's one of his favorite RPG books.
  
• Judges Guild Ready Ref Sheets
  
• Strategic Review and Dragon magazines (or the CD archive)
  
• Fight On! and Knockspell magazines
  
• Grodog's Greyhawk site
  
• Arneson's First Fantasy Campaign - not only for the Blackmoor maps, but all the awesome bits of info that show the wargaming campaign aspect (sides, orders of battle, income/resources, seasons, etc) and the different rules approaches (e.g. handling XP)
  

Settings

• Points of Light - Love the maps. Love the scope (just right for getting started). Love the data:detail ratio.
  
• Greyhawk (folio or first boxed set) - classic, with great maps and the right mix of data without too much detail
  
• Wilderlands - maybe a little gonzo, but the maps and the hex wilderness system are awesome.
  
• Yggsburgh (hardcover or folio) - I have mixed feelings about Yggsburgh. The hardcover, especially, is filled with annoying editing errors, and the Yggsburgh tone is a little more "fantasy renaissance" and a little less "gritty swords & sorcery" than I prefer. However, the scope is just right. The level of detail in the wilderness areas is good. The example of how to set up a sandbox with focii of power, resources, and orders of battle is good (thought the editing flaws mar it). In the end, despite the warts, I'm still drawn to Yggsburgh as an example of Gygaxian mini-setting design.
  
• Empire of the Petal Throne - Want to step away from standard Tolkien-style fantasy worlds? Dive in.
  
• Lankhmar (1e version) - Want a classic swords-n-sorcery tone that's not Tolkien but not quite as alien as Empire of the Petal Throne? Want an example of how to bend the D&D rules to fit your setting concepts? Look no further.
  

Adventures

• B1 - The great map. The do-it-yourself approach. One of my favorites.
  
• B4 - The pyramid/lost city setup with the Lovecraftian god behind it all gives such a classic REH/swords-n-sorcery vibe that you can't help love this one, despite some flaws. Moldvay was the master at giving you an entire campaign in just a few pages (see X1, as well).
  
• Caverns of Thracia
  
• D series - How to do an underground wilderness, including whole cultures and cities. This blew my mind, when it was new.
  
• G series
  
• S1
  
• Tegel Manor
  
• X1
  
• RJK's Bottle City
  

Other Contenders

• T1 - I think there's too much space spent on mundane detail in town, but the town/dungeon setup is good, and the Moathouse is pretty classic.
  
• B2 - I think the Caves are too densely populated, but again, the keep/dungeon/mini-wilderness setup is good (though the wilderness is too small), and it's a classic.
  
• Gygax's Living Fantasy - One of the best of the line. I'd rank it higher if it weren't for the decidely "fantasy renaissance" tone that clashes with my preferences. It's a little to "wiz-o-phone" for my tastes. Still well worth consulting, though, and perhaps your tastes vary from mine.
  
• Gygax's Nation Builder - Not an essential reference, but an occasionally useful one.
  

I'm tired of typing, and I'm sure I missed stuff. I'll probably be editing this.

I'd say that forum posts are another invaluable source of knowledge and advice. For example, the various megadungeon mapping and filling threads are wonderful (and check out Melan's flow-chart analysis). The threads with pics and details of from the old campaigns or dungeons. I always pay attention to posts by T. Foster, wherever he may be posting. Matthew is another poster that consistently posts material and ideas that I find valuable. I could go on, but there are too many to list.

[jasons]

Thanks for this great post, philotomy. As one who came late to this party I will say that I've gleaned alot of insight from reviewing message board posts, blog entries, etc. but gosh what an effort to page through, especially when many threads contain pearls of wisdom cast scattershot amidst the usual chatter, flame-outs, and bickering (not on this board!). User-unfriendly if you stay current with the stuff, downright discouraging to try to catch up on. It would be great if more of this stuff could be compiled like the Philotomy's Musings pdf put together by thegreyelf.
I also admire Melan's mapping analysis. Just the kind of thing to include in a dungeon design primer along side annotated excerpts from some the great modules and pertinent swaths of text from the DMG and like sources.

Tavis, you raise many interesting points, perhaps another thread on alternate dungeon info delivery systems is in order. Has this kind of topic been explored on this board?

I still would like to hear about some of the non-TSR or later period modules that have some claim to old-schoolish greatness....

[grodog]

Sept 12, 2010 11:29:05 GMT -6 jasons said:

Geoffrey: The Bottle City also typifies what is so frustrating about trying to familiarize oneself with the great adventure writing of RPG history in that, after a brief googlefest I must conclude that I probably won't be seeing a copy. What D&D University needs is some kind of theft-proof online library!

FWIW, my understanding is that Bottle City will be available again, in some format.

[grodog]

One of my long-standing projects has been to publish a collection of essays on dungeon design. Here's my blurb, excerpted from an old 2007 post on DF:

The collection of old-school dungeon/adventure design essays: old-school greats like Paul Jaquays, Roger Musson, Gary Gygax, Rob Kuntz, and several others, as well as some top old-school as-yet-unpublished fan designers*, advise/kibbitz/impart wisdom on designing kickass dungeons and adventures. In part, this grew out of the various "mega-dungeon" discussions on Dragonsfoot and Knights & Knaves, as well as a long-time desire to compile an anthology of rock-star game designers (dating from my Event Horizon Productions days in the middle '90s). This has been mostly-middle burner throughout the year as I lined up authors, reprints, and worked up content outlines for the new material.

This project remains near and dear to my heart, and is definitely on my "bucket list" so I've been spending some more time updating my vision for the content, and will begin the analysis work with Jon this fall, on building some cost models so that we can figure out when we'll be able to publish it. I don't want to compromise my vision on the content, or the production quality, so it won't be cheap. But hopefully it'll be worth it, once it's out there.

[tavis]

grodog, I don't recognize Roger Musson's name. What are the essentials I should seek out to get me up to speed?

jasons, I started another thread as you suggested - I put it in the Workshop area as I seem to remember that being fertile ground for one-page dungeon development, which I see as related.

[aldarron]

I'm pleasantly surprised to see some really excellent resource info showing up on this thread and my "want list" has just doubled.

I do already forsee a faculty theory schism in good old D&D U. in what constitutes "good" dungeon as many of the modules proposed as exemplars fall squrely in the relatively unrealistic and plotless "Hack n Slash" whereas others are more deeply tied to a narrative and internal realism. Reminds me of the debate regarding the merits or lack thereof of B1's level one map.

[grodog]

Sept 15, 2010 7:23:41 GMT -6 tavis said:

grodog, I don't recognize Roger Musson's name. What are the essentials I should seek out to get me up to speed?

Roger Musson wrote the seminal "Dungeon Architect" articles in White Dwarf 25-27 (June, Aug, Oct 1981 issues).

[barrataria]

Keep on the Borderlands has been mentioned here a couple of times as a module, but there is quite a bit of explanation/advice/background included in it, particularly design notes (mostly buried in text) and several explicit suggestions/mandates to design things to add on.

I have bought many used copies, and virtually all of them have SOMETHING drawn on the blank grid or SOMEONE listed on the blank NPC list at the back

And perhaps some enterprising old school grad student can study how many "Cave of the Unknown" modules were designed over the decades by budding DMs

[robertsconley]

Sept 14, 2010 10:58:03 GMT -6 philotomy said:

Settings

• Points of Light - Love the maps. Love the scope (just right for getting started). Love the data:detail ratio.
  

Thanks for the Compliment. So everybody know you can download Southland for free from here. I deliberately designed this as a typical D&D setting and as a place for PC to establish themselves.

cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/articles/article/7928/SouthLand.pdf