mythmere
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 293
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Post by mythmere on Aug 24, 2010 14:23:08 GMT -6
Okay, it's not entirely correct on either count. The publisher is Frog God Games, which is Bill Webb's successor to Necromancer Games since Clark Peterson decided to focus on RL stuff. And it's Swords Wizardry, not OD&D. Everyone draws their own conclusions about how close those are to each other - opinions differ. Both the Core Rules (the core three archetypal classes) and a new "Complete" rulebook to include the SR ranger and the various classes from the supplement will be published. Here's a link to what the cover art will look like: www.talesofthefroggod.com/index.php/products/swords-and-wizardry-complete-rulebook
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Post by greyharp on Aug 24, 2010 15:39:14 GMT -6
Great news for the old school community, well done Matt.
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Post by geoffrey on Aug 24, 2010 16:00:37 GMT -6
That cover art is fantastic. Congratulations! ;D
I hope Brian LeBlanc (the artist who did a lot of interior art for Necromancer Games) and Conan Venus (who did a lot of cartography for Necromancer Games) are working with Frog God Games.
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Post by kesher on Aug 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -6
Man, the cover ROCKS!
This is really cool---I'll definitely buy some iteration of it!
Congrats, Matt!
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Post by harami2000 on Aug 24, 2010 18:25:37 GMT -6
Things ain't what they used to be. Looking good... aside; "This is the game you played 20 years ago" jars a bit, personally. There may have been some who held out against the tide for that long, rather than carrying out further mix-and-match exercises, but I can't think of (m)any who did to quite that extent. Any here? 1977 -> 1976, too; sorry to nit pick. Best wishes for the ongoing work.
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EdOWar
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 315
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Post by EdOWar on Aug 24, 2010 19:35:59 GMT -6
Love that cover. Even though I already have a copy of the core rules, and the whitebox, I'll probably buy another for that cover.
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Post by aldarron on Aug 24, 2010 20:02:30 GMT -6
I suppose I'm a bit behind the times on who's who in game publishing, but doesn't S&W already have at least one publisher? So what does this news mean really? Does it translate to more copies in game stores or what?
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18 Spears
BANNED
Yeah ... Spear This Ya' Freak!
Posts: 251
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Post by 18 Spears on Aug 24, 2010 20:42:36 GMT -6
There are currently two publishers.
The S&W Core Rules are currently published by Black Blade, and the S&W White Box Rules are published by Brave Halfling.
The White Box will still be published by Brave Halfling.
Black Blade will no longer publish the Core Rules, this will be handled entirely by Frog God Games. It's my understanding Black Blade is "on board" with this development.
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Post by giantbat on Aug 24, 2010 22:17:05 GMT -6
I liked the quality of the Necromancer products I've owned, and only wished they weren't d20. The prospect of having similar quality material published for S&W grabs my attention.
The copy on the site makes it sound like there will be only 300 print copies of the rulebook available initially. If that's not the case, the price list could benefit from clarification. If that is the case, it would be good to know how to get one. Information about preorders, or a mailing list, or something like that would be helpful.
The posturing on the Frog God About Us page is a bit thick:
Seems out of place with the enthusiasm for DIY in the target market.
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Post by geoffrey on Aug 24, 2010 22:33:23 GMT -6
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Post by Falconer on Aug 24, 2010 22:35:04 GMT -6
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Post by Mr. Darke on Aug 24, 2010 22:45:05 GMT -6
The posturing on the Frog God About Us page is a bit thick: Seems out of place with the enthusiasm for DIY in the target market. That was one thing I liked about S&W. I love the underground DIY feel and I am concerned about the loss of that. All in all I think this is a good thing but, Bill did step on at least one toe with that comment.
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Post by geoffrey on Aug 25, 2010 0:05:02 GMT -6
Right you are, and excellent link! ;D
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Post by harami2000 on Aug 25, 2010 2:12:30 GMT -6
The posturing on the Frog God About Us page is a bit thick: Seems out of place with the enthusiasm for DIY in the target market. You know who you are...? If anyone's counting that as a backstab, that's a pretty friendly one vs. others I've seen. The next couple of paragraphs set the context/tone better for that, rather than reading in isolation.
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Post by Melan on Aug 25, 2010 5:27:27 GMT -6
I actually prefer hand-drawn maps, such as in Bottle City and in the Mines of Khunmar. So do I. (Although I have largely switched to AutoREALM for the mapping I do for fanzines)
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Post by giantbat on Aug 25, 2010 7:08:36 GMT -6
You know who you are...? What? Did anyone say that it was a backstab, or anything like that? I don't have any reason to believe Frog God has anything but the best of intentions. It stuck out sorely when I read it in context, which is why I commented on it. I think they could sell themselves with statements that don't risk alienating the DIY crowd, or the amateur publishers who themselves are likely to be customers. I'd like to see Frog God be as successful as possible.
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Post by Mr. Darke on Aug 25, 2010 8:01:47 GMT -6
What worries me is what happens to the amature side of this. I was to begin work on a supplement in a couple weeks but I may have to hold off until word is made on if that will still be possible.
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Post by cadriel on Aug 25, 2010 8:07:31 GMT -6
What worries me is what happens to the amature side of this. I was to begin work on a supplement in a couple weeks but I may have to hold off until word is made on if that will still be possible. Dude, whatever you do, do not hold off. Some of the best stuff in the OSR over the last few years hasn't bothered with formal compatibility notices and you don't need to either. We need amateurs to keep this thing going.
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Post by Mr. Darke on Aug 25, 2010 8:54:52 GMT -6
I have recieved word that reassures me to start. So I guess this is the announcement that the 9th I begin work on Raven's Keep: A Swords and Wizardry Supplement (Tentative Title)
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mythmere
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 293
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Post by mythmere on Aug 25, 2010 9:48:48 GMT -6
I have recieved word that reassures me to start. So I guess this is the announcement that the 9th I begin work on Raven's Keep: A Swords and Wizardry Supplement (Tentative Title) Julian, you can already still do that for stating compatibility with the Core Rules. Plus, we also plan for the Complete Rules to have a similar but probably not identical "d20 type" license as the one that exists in the Core Rules, but I haven't even started to draft that, so I can't tell you what those rules/restrictions will look like. So don't stop writing.
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Post by chicagowiz on Aug 25, 2010 9:51:23 GMT -6
If anyone's counting that as a backstab, that's a pretty friendly one vs. others I've seen. The next couple of paragraphs set the context/tone better for that, rather than reading in isolation. No, it doesn't. It just continues the snobbery, except it's pointed at the 3e crowd. The whole thing just feels "off" - it did from the get-go. I, for one, think we're seeing some shark jumping here, and that makes me sad to say that. As a real fan of S&W (pre Frog Gods), I had high hopes but now it seems the "professionals" are stepping in to save us from our DIY-selves.
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Post by Mr. Darke on Aug 25, 2010 9:54:41 GMT -6
I have recieved word that reassures me to start. So I guess this is the announcement that the 9th I begin work on Raven's Keep: A Swords and Wizardry Supplement (Tentative Title) Julian, you can already still do that for stating compatibility with the Core Rules. Plus, we also plan for the Complete Rules to have a similar but probably not identical "d20 type" license as the one that exists in the Core Rules, but I haven't even started to draft that, so I can't tell you what those rules/restrictions will look like. So don't stop writing. Thanks Myth. Now, wish me luck.
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Post by giantbat on Aug 25, 2010 10:31:14 GMT -6
For my part:
I like Swords & Wizardry, and I am hopeful about the products to be produced by Frog God Games. Necromancer Games products were of a higher quality than generally found in the industry and I hope Frog God Games continues that tradition. I purchased my first copy of S&W Whitebox from Lulu.com and it was not a cheap book; it was a very nice book. I did not discard it; I traded it to Marv because he didn't have a copy of that print. I don't believe the sentence I quoted out of context sounds better in context. The context can only be taken as but so critical of 3e, given that Frog God has mostly published material for Pathfinder.
I criticized some aspects of the Frog God site. I intended my comments to be constructive. I agree neither with anyone who would characterize such criticism as accusations of backstabbing, nor anyone who would predict at this point that publishing with Frog God is shark jumping for S&W. Anyone who believes anything like that is entirely entitled to do so, I just want to make it clear that I don't believe those things and it was not my intent to encourage either perspective with my criticism.
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Arminath
Level 4 Theurgist
WoO:CR
Posts: 150
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Post by Arminath on Aug 25, 2010 10:54:34 GMT -6
If anyone's counting that as a backstab, that's a pretty friendly one vs. others I've seen. The next couple of paragraphs set the context/tone better for that, rather than reading in isolation. No, it doesn't. It just continues the snobbery, except it's pointed at the 3e crowd. The whole thing just feels "off" - it did from the get-go. I, for one, think we're seeing some shark jumping here, and that makes me sad to say that. As a real fan of S&W (pre Frog Gods), I had high hopes but now it seems the "professionals" are stepping in to save us from our DIY-selves. I think it's the same 'evolution' that TSR went through from its 1974 year vs 1979 year (the DIY OD&D game to the rules-governed AD&D). I wish Matt all the best abd I hope he doesn't allow S&W to become the spiritual successor (and history-repeating successor) of TSR's D&D and the disasters that befell it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2010 11:20:18 GMT -6
oh, the delicious irony... OSRIC is totally illegal and I wont be associated with it in any way. Please dont bother to defend it by saying they havent been sued. It is illegal and totally unethical. I refuse to be a part of it. from- necromancergames.yuku.com/topic/9969?page=7
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Post by chicagowiz on Aug 25, 2010 11:45:20 GMT -6
oh, the delicious irony... OSRIC is totally illegal and I wont be associated with it in any way. Please dont bother to defend it by saying they havent been sued. It is illegal and totally unethical. I refuse to be a part of it. from- necromancergames.yuku.com/topic/9969?page=4(It's actually on page four...) I was just saying on the S&W forum that the memory span on the snub will be about a month and then it'll all be forgiven/forgotten. Line up with your money and smile at the nice man...
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Post by Mr. Darke on Aug 25, 2010 11:55:46 GMT -6
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Post by harami2000 on Aug 25, 2010 12:27:18 GMT -6
You know who you are...? What? If people wish to be offended by such statements on the website, that's their call. I'm sure there are plenty of others who will wear their "amateur" status as a badge of honor and wholeheartedly adhere to using hand-drawn maps and illustrations to woodgrain box standards as a "true" back-to-basics approach. However, they will not, I trust, deliberately go out to sell for $$ something that is poorly conceived, badly thought through, etc., which is read once and then discarded by a disappointed customer. To that list could easily be added (from observation) poorly proof-read, not peer-reviewed and/or playtested, deliberately over-hyped, having multiple revisions posted within the first couple of weeks from publication, etc. Did anyone say that it was a backstab, or anything like that? It's certainly reading like some people are willing to take offence to people going "professional" as well as such perceived "professional > amateur attitudes" and starting to deliberately seek negatives in a similar manner that led recently to some rather appalling mudslinging, straw man attacks, etc., surrounding that "Insidious" module. The fall of Rome is just around the corner, no doubt. It stuck out sorely when I read it in context, which is why I commented on it. I think they could sell themselves with statements that don't risk alienating the DIY crowd, or the amateur publishers who themselves are likely to be customers. I'd like to see Frog God be as successful as possible. Fair enough, but I personally think it's easier to develop thicker skin and up the stakes even further on the quality front on the "pure amateur" side if seriously battling for customer $$ on such a basis ("amateurs" are allowed to break even, no? ), or being happy to enjoy one's works and gaming in general regardless of such comments which are far less "offensive" than many statements made by the "gaming gods" back in the 70s/early 80s. The old question about where the future (in general) lies if no-one's making money still exists, however. 02c/ymmv, anyhow.
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Post by harami2000 on Aug 25, 2010 12:31:20 GMT -6
Mr. Darke grimm: cute, but I believe that counts as clip art... rather lacking on the layout front, too. *ducks*
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Post by Mr. Darke on Aug 25, 2010 12:47:53 GMT -6
I have said this elsewhere but I will say it here; I support Matt and his decisions, I also know the quality of Necromancer Games and feel Frog God has done just as good. The above has me ready to buy a book when it comes out. I'll not let a poorly worded comment get in the way of that.
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