Top Secret (1980)

[coffee]

Top Secret was (I believe; if I'm wrong, someone please let me know) the first modern day roleplaying game.

I got it in ether '80 or '81, having seen a full page ad on the back of my mother's Games magazine.

The box contained the 68 page rulebook, 28 page adventure Operation Sprechenhaltestelle (with 4 page player handout and 3 panel ref's map, which could be used as GM's screen) and the red and white d20s (d%) that wore down almost immediately.

This game featured one of the first (if not the first) diceless combat systems, for unarmed combat. The firearm combat used dice almost too much, it was very detailed. Once you got used to it, however, it would go pretty fast.

To me, one of the best features of this game was the table of missions. Many missions were listed, including what XP the mission was worth, what information the players should be told, what info they SHOULDN'T be told, and what complications might arise.

I never played the sample adventure, but it looks like it could have been fun. And, it was set up so that a number of teams could be there simultaneously, each after their own separate goals.

Another innovation was that the game would work quite well with only 2 or 3 players, as opposed to the "bigger party = more survivable" attitude of D&D.

Any other questions? Let me know. This is one game I actually ran as well as played, even though that was many years ago.

[Finarvyn]

The thing that puzzled me most about Top Secret was the fact that there were class and level charts ala D&D but the classes didn't seem to really be developed. As far as I could tell, there was no official rules difference between "investigation" and "confiscation", for example. Maybe I missed something?

[coffee]

The only difference I could find was that Assassins got bonus experience for doing Assassin stuff, and the same for the other 'bureaus'. Anyone could kill somebody, but only an Assassin gets the 100 point Bureau Bonus.

Another time that came up was in an article in The Dragon, where somebody was complaining about changing bureaus; Why should a fourth level Confiscator suddenly steal like a first level Assassin?

This question made no sense to me. He steals like he steals, based upon what the character does. He just doesn't get the same experience he used to because that's not his job.

It was certainly old school from the quirkiness standpoint, but I still dearly love this game.

[Finarvyn]

But what did the experinece do for the character, other than give him/her a higher level? I don't recall any skill bonuses or anything like that associated with levels.

[ffilz]

The module was also kind of odd, sort of dungeon like.

As far as games, Top Secret SI was definitely an improvement over Top Secret.

I never really figured out how to run a spy game though. I think the problem is that old school style play really doesn't work well for spy missions.

Frank

[coffee]

admin said:

But what did the experinece do for the character, other than give him/her a higher level? I don't recall any skill bonuses or anything like that associated with levels.

Page 18. For every 100 xp you get, you can add one point to one of your Primary Character Traits (aka Ability Scores). This improves your other stats, and thus improves your character in game terms.

If you raise you Knowledge score one point, you can raise one of your Areas Of Knowledge (i.e.; skills) by five points, thus becoming more skilled.

The level thing works more like it did in Gangbusters than in D&D, in that the higher level you are the higher up the ladder you are as a spy. James Bond would be a pretty high level spy, whereas the guy who got his new Aston Martin to him in the field would be pretty low. Higher level equals more prestige, better assignments, better special equipment (it's suggested the agents pay for their own special equipment if they're below 4th level).

Also, experience was divided by the agent's level. This way, your first kill gives you much more experience than your 50th.

[coffee]

ffilz said:

As far as games, Top Secret SI was definitely an improvement over Top Secret.

Frank

Really? In what way? I never owned the SI game, much less got a look at it. I heard from one guy that it was rather dumbed down, but that may have just been his opinon. Any light you can shed would be great, thanks.

[dwayanu]

I can't comment on the TS:SI rules, having never used them. However, I can recommend the Covert Operations Sourcebook (IIRC the title) volumes for anyone whose memory of key operations in the Cold War could use refreshing. They're a great resource for coming up with scenarios!

[ffilz]

TS:SI just to me seemed like a cleaner system. I kind of liked their combat system and damage system with hit locations but pretty easy to use.

Of course I also got rid of TS:SI and kept TS, so who knows...

But then I really don't ever expect to run a spy game.

In any event, TS:SI had some nice stuff, but I should also mention that it is totally not compatible with TS. Oh, and it's modules pretty much sucked.

Frank

[coffee]

Thanks, Frank; I appreciate your comments on TS: SI. Like I said, I never even saw it up close.

I just figured, at the time, that TS might have had it's quirks (several of them!) but by then I'd come to terms with the systems. So I never saw any reason to 'upgrade'.

Still don't.

[Finarvyn]

There was a copy of TS:SI at my local used book shoppe. It just sat there for months. Then I saw some comments on DF about how the system was better and I decided to go buy it. Of course, by the time I got there it was gone. Figures, eh?

[coffee]

That's the way it goes! I saw a few old school books I'd like to have picked up here and there, and they're ALWAYS gone when I come back.

Now I go shopping with cash on hand and follow a "Buy now, ask questions later!" policy. I can always sell stuff on ebay if I don't need it.

[makofan]

My friends have a TS campaign that's been going for 25 years. Again, like Boot Hill, the system is great fun. It has the flavour, the gadgets, and the spy trappings you need

[jrients]

I played the sample adventure over a couple of sessions back in the 90s. My agent, "Viper-6" smoked stogies and so when I found an old matchbook I lit one up. Turns out I had located a pack of KGB knockout matches and my PC fell unconscious. The rest of the party was quite alarmed, fearing I had been shot with a concealed blowgun or something like that.

[dwayanu]

;D It often seems the best stories come from things going wrong!

[coffee]

That's true.

One time I had missed the first session of a guy's new campaign. Things hadn't gone well, partly because most of the team were high school kids who didn't know what was going on. I got there and the one older guy, visibly happy, asked "Are you playing? Are you here to save us?"

And that's how my character 'Saviour' got his code name.

[vladtolenkov]

I must admit that while I loved Top Secret and played it quite a bit, the original rules were a little too fiddly for my lazy 10 year old brain (the unarmed combat tables were intimidating). I tended to like keeping things simple, and I was too busy having my friends fight hordes of Bond-like baddies to worry about the rules too much.

Top Secret S.I. was a rather different game, but I ended up playing it AND using the rules as written far more than the original. I've still got it and a few of supplements in our storage room. I even have both of the ill-conceived FREElancers supplement (basically an attempt to have a near future campaign setting that tried to incorporate cyberpunk science fiction elements with superheroes (NOT, in my opinion, the best idea in the world).

I also quite liked the combat system (although I do remember PCs being shot in the hands a little too often).

[brumbar]

Some of my friends and I have been playing the same ongoing campaign for close to 25 years now. Great system with plenty of flexibility for the GM. Our group was heavily science orientated in our real lives and 3 of the group were real military buffs (can identify a piece of equipment from its silhouette). This made for some very interesting adventures and some that required hours of role playing without firing a shot. We also had a session where we each had to assassinate a target as an individual mission and the winner was the person who got the ultra clean kill in the most imaginative way.

[Deleted]

Top Secret is one of my favorite non-D&D games. I've always like using percentiles for ability scores. It seems so intuitive and simple. Last time I play was about a year ago.

[codeman123]

I have the core box set and some other random adventures that i found for cheap at my gaming store around here many years ago. That was awhile ago but i remember playing it quite a bit back in like middle school. It was alot of fun from what i can remember...

[blissinfinite]

TS was the second rpg we played a year or so after I got Holmes basic. We played it for a while and really enjoyed it mostly played as a small group of one maybe two PCs. I think I remember I was a bit confused with the unarmed combat, I don't think I quite had a grasp on it but we struggled through it and still had great times. The original mod was very much like B1 in that it was somewhat of a complete setting and you can just change the scenario.

[calithena]

When I had a GM who was really into LeCarre and spy fiction more generally, the game sang. He did a great job.

Hmmm. Sort of like when you had a DM who really knew his S&S...

A lot of the early games are designed for people who know the literature the games came from. This is a contrast to many games produced today, which are for people who already roleplay.

[coffee]

Jun 1, 2009 9:30:48 GMT -6 calithena said:

When I had a GM who was really into LeCarre and spy fiction more generally, the game sang. He did a great job.

Hmmm. Sort of like when you had a DM who really knew his S&S...

A lot of the early games are designed for people who know the literature the games came from. This is a contrast to many games produced today, which are for people who already roleplay.

I think you're really onto something there...

[greentongue]

Wonder if you could do something like the TV show Burn Notice with TS?
=

[coffee]

I'm sure you could.

And if you do, let us know how it goes.

[EdOWar]

TS:SI would work great for a Burn Notice type campaign.

I picked up the original TS as a kid, got most of the supplements for it, but we didn't really play it much. The rules were a bit too much for us back then, I think.

Later on we got TS:SI and played that a lot in high school. My friend ran a great campaign. My character was Hans Kruger, modeled somewhat on Rutger Hauer. One of my favorite characters, to this day. I probably still have the character sheet around somewhere.

Ah, great memories.

[castiglione]

I never played TS:SI but I think the original TS rules would be good for a Burn Notice type campaign, especially the combat system; wasn't there an episode where Michael Westin got some cred with a guy just based off of what style he used to fight with?

[Deleted]

I played the original Top Secret on both sides of the GM screen and really enjoyed it. The spy stuff was a lot of fun, but I had the most juice out of it when I adapted the rule-set to run a near future post-apocalyptic campaign which was a lot like the Morrow Project.

[malchya]

This is one that I've always really liked. Ran a couple of cold war scenarios back in the early '80s (during one of which my pcs ended up destroying about a quarter of Bad Homburg!). I would really like to give it another try, but in an historic setting. The spy genre just hasn't been the same since the wall came down IMO.

[EdOWar]

May 1, 2010 22:38:08 GMT -6 @ertyqway said:

I played the original Top Secret on both sides of the GM screen and really enjoyed it. The spy stuff was a lot of fun, but I had the most juice out of it when I adapted the rule-set to run a near future post-apocalyptic campaign which was a lot like the Morrow Project.

Ah, that's a pretty cool idea, a near future post-apocalypse setting. Actually, TS:SI would be good for just about any standard modern setting: cops and robbers, counter terrorism, mercenaries, spies, whatever. Using the Advantages/Disadvantages, it could probably be easily modified for super-hero and more science-fantasy style post-apocalypse as well.

Thinking about it, TS:SI was probably one of the best, if not the best, non-D&D product that TSR put out (imo at least). It's easy to modify, has an in-built hit location mechanic which doesn't require a separate roll, simple mechanic for non-lethal vs. lethal damage, uses all the dice (except d20's), simple abstract rules for automatic weapons, etc. While I'm not a big fan of systems that use advantages/disadvantages, TS:SI's system usually kept it down to at most two or three of each using a simple point system.