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Post by Finarvyn on Jun 30, 2014 5:39:34 GMT -6
The map is pretty generic. No actual star names or anything like that. I think it would be easy to throw together something random and play with that.
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Post by rsdean on Aug 26, 2017 13:38:08 GMT -6
So, my copies went to Noble Knight around 2007, but I got a nice pair of the books with their maps at the Gencon auction this year. I had a sudden urge to play Star Probe in particular after watching the first two seasons of Enterprise recently...
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Post by dicebro on Oct 19, 2021 20:37:30 GMT -6
I think a case could be made that Star Probe fell into the public domain, pursuant to the strict notice requirements of the US Copyright Act of 1909, when TSR Hobbies, Inc changed the Copyright Notice from “Copyright 1974 Tactical Studies Rules” to “Copyright 1975 TSR Games”. Does anyone with legal expertise have an argument against?
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aramis
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 170
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Post by aramis on Oct 27, 2021 5:02:37 GMT -6
Per Copyright Circular 6A www.copyright.gov/circs/circ06a.pdf ... Renewal is automatic for any work first copyrighted after 1964. 2 terms of 28 years. So 56 years from first publication; that has also since been changed to a total of 96 years. It won't hit public domain until the 2060's. Assuming the mouse doesn't get any further extentions through congress.
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Post by dicebro on Oct 28, 2021 12:15:22 GMT -6
Per Copyright Circular 6A www.copyright.gov/circs/circ06a.pdf ... Renewal is automatic for any work first copyrighted after 1964. 2 terms of 28 years. So 56 years from first publication; that has also since been changed to a total of 96 years. It won't hit public domain until the 2060's. Assuming the mouse doesn't get any further extentions through congress. Yes, However I am thinking that the penalty for improper notice is that the work falls into the public domain. “TSR Games” doesn’t appear, at least to me, to have ever been the proper proprietor considering that the original copyright was assigned to “TSR Hobbies, Inc.” in 1975. Thoughts?
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aramis
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 170
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Post by aramis on Oct 30, 2021 6:19:37 GMT -6
Per Copyright Circular 6A www.copyright.gov/circs/circ06a.pdf ... Renewal is automatic for any work first copyrighted after 1964. 2 terms of 28 years. So 56 years from first publication; that has also since been changed to a total of 96 years. It won't hit public domain until the 2060's. Assuming the mouse doesn't get any further extentions through congress. Yes, However I am thinking that the penalty for improper notice is that the work falls into the public domain. “TSR Games” doesn’t appear, at least to me, to have ever been the proper proprietor considering that the original copyright was assigned to “TSR Hobbies, Inc.” in 1975. Thoughts? You really need to actually read the copyright circulars. They'll make it clear you're engaged in wishful thinking. If the original is valid, then an invalid second printing would still not dump the original's registration. ONLY a court or the copyright office can rule something an invalid copyright. They seldom do so. More often, they simply transfer to the proper owner. Also, the required mark is any of the valid copyright symbols (© (c), copyright. ℗, phonorecord copyright), a year, and a recognizable name of the holder. (Not of need the legal name of the holder). There is little reason to think they'd invalidate over using a DBA so close to their registered trademarks, and one which, as they indirectly acknowledge in Dragon Issue 1, was used in reference to them, by disavowing a particular con which was attempting to con people into believing TSR Hobbies would be there by saying 'TSR Games' would be.
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Post by dicebro on Oct 30, 2021 9:00:59 GMT -6
Can you please point me to the copyright law circular to which you refer? The earlier circular only deals with Copyright Terms. I’m interested in determining the public domain status of a published work that did not follow the stringent Notice requirements under the 1909 act. If the Star Probe publication fell into the public domain in 1975, then that would be a significant discovery in my opinion.
“If the original is valid, then an invalid second printing would still not dump the original's registration” — I’m not talking about Registration requirements. However, is there any case opinion that supports this assertion?
“and a recognizable name of the holder. (Not of need the legal name of the holder).” — is there any case opinion that supports this?
“There is little reason to think they'd invalidate over using a DBA so close to their registered trademarks, and one which, as they indirectly acknowledge in Dragon Issue 1, was used in reference to them, by disavowing a particular con which was attempting to con people into believing TSR Hobbies would be there by saying 'TSR Games' would be.” —-I’m not clear on what this is supposed to mean. Perhaps you can give some context?
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aramis
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 170
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Post by aramis on Oct 31, 2021 18:46:49 GMT -6
If it was registered, your query is asinine on its face; an invalid registration would have been informed to stop or correct.
Given that it was registered...
DBA = "Doing Business As" - a standard business and legal term.
I'm not going to encourage your clear and profound piratical intent. You can do your own research. copyright.gov is the place to go.
You can also read the US code.
2205.2(A) Name of Copyright Owner As a general rule, the copyright notice on both copies and phonorecords must include one of the following: • The name of the owner of copyright in the work or an abbreviation by which the name can be recognized, or • A generally known alternative designation of the owner.
Which is actually MORE restrictive than 1909. Which allows "© accompanied by the initials, monogram, mark, or symbol of the copyright proprietor" Marks implies trademarks, which need not be registered, and a DBA is such. But it also allows a symbol. It merely requires that the owner at some point else in the document be identifiable.
You're on a fools' errand.
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Post by scottenkainen on Nov 1, 2021 11:22:13 GMT -6
Anything published since 1967 is notoriously hard to get into the public domain.
On a better side note -- would a play-by-post Star Probe campaign be feasible? Has anyone ran one?
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Post by dicebro on Nov 4, 2021 12:10:06 GMT -6
If it was registered, your query is asinine on its face; an invalid registration would have been informed to stop or correct. Given that it was registered... DBA = "Doing Business As" - a standard business and legal term. I'm not going to encourage your clear and profound piratical intent. You can do your own research. copyright.gov is the place to go. You can also read the US code. 2205.2(A) Name of Copyright Owner As a general rule, the copyright notice on both copies and phonorecords must include one of the following: • The name of the owner of copyright in the work or an abbreviation by which the name can be recognized, or • A generally known alternative designation of the owner. Which is actually MORE restrictive than 1909. Which allows "© accompanied by the initials, monogram, mark, or symbol of the copyright proprietor" Marks implies trademarks, which need not be registered, and a DBA is such. But it also allows a symbol. It merely requires that the owner at some point else in the document be identifiable. You're on a fools' errand. Aramis. You really are taking this too personally. Thank you for your input, but I’m not convinced by your argument. If you have something else to add, then I would be happy to read it and think about it. Also I would appreciate it very much if you could refrain from the condescending tone. And I would also demand that you retract, and apologize for making defamatory accusations against me. I do not possess unlawful intent. I’m not interested in piracy. I am a retired public servant (government lawyer) with a pension and I have no desire to engage in piracy. I am simply asking for a friendly discussion about the copyright law aspects of these old games that are interesting to me.
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Post by dicebro on Nov 4, 2021 12:26:16 GMT -6
Anything published since 1967 is notoriously hard to get into the public domain. On a better side note -- would a play-by-post Star Probe campaign be feasible? Has anyone ran one? Yes, I’ve been running a play by text game with a couple friends who don’t have the rules. It’s been d**n fun!
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Post by scottenkainen on Nov 4, 2021 22:47:33 GMT -6
Is there room for one more?
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Post by dicebro on Nov 5, 2021 5:03:38 GMT -6
Is there room for one more? Is it possible to try it by post on discord? I could open a channel. That would be easier for me.
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Post by scottenkainen on Nov 5, 2021 9:58:40 GMT -6
No thank you, then. I would definitely not play if it was on Discord.
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Post by dicebro on Nov 5, 2021 10:10:30 GMT -6
No thank you, then. I would definitely not play if it was on Discord. I only text with close friends and family. So that’s out. Do you have any suggestions?
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Post by scottenkainen on Nov 5, 2021 10:30:00 GMT -6
pbem would feel ideally old school...
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Post by dicebro on Nov 9, 2021 21:07:19 GMT -6
I have created a new thread solely related to my analysis of the Star Probe game’s public domain status. Look for me there if you want to contribute. If you are the person who called me a “fool with piratical intent”, then I invite you to contribute so long as you first make a public apology and retract your defamatory accusation. I’m waiting patiently.
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Post by tdenmark on Nov 9, 2021 21:16:35 GMT -6
If you are the person who called me a “fool with piratical intent”, then I invite you to contribute so long as you first make a public apology and retract your defamatory accusation. I’m waiting patiently. I wouldn't let that get under my skin. It's not worth it.
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Post by tdenmark on Nov 9, 2021 21:25:25 GMT -6
In Alarums & Excursions issue 15 Gary Gygax notes "...I do not bother to place adventurers on any sort of graph if the group is three or less...more than three persons are in a party, we always require that they align themselves in a march order, the leader be in the front rank...when combat takes place we sometimes use miniatures...my favorite grid for character positions in combat is a large sheet of staggered squares covered with acetate." That is some interesting lore from way back. I was curious what the pros and cons of staggered squares might be over a square grid or hexes and not having much luck finding a good one online I made a sheet in Photoshop and printed it out large to test at the gaming table. It has some very interesting properties. Basically it works the same as hexagonal paper, but with the straight edge alignment properties of squares. The play test went really well, and you don't have that weird diagonal move effect where you move further relatively per square diagonally on a square grid. Square grids and hexagons are ubiquitous in games, but when was the last time you saw staggered squares? I first became aware of the staggered squares grid when reading a copy of TSR's first sci-fi game Star Probe and its sequel Star Empires which has a map of the galaxy on a staggered grid. Here is the grid I made, you are welcome to have and print out to try at home: Staggered Grid Image
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Post by dicebro on Nov 10, 2021 2:01:30 GMT -6
If you are the person who called me a “fool with piratical intent”, then I invite you to contribute so long as you first make a public apology and retract your defamatory accusation. I’m waiting patiently. I wouldn't let that get under my skin. It's not worth it. You are right. I’m going to let it go. I believe I have more than made my point about insults. Thanks..
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Post by dicebro on Nov 10, 2021 6:33:17 GMT -6
In Alarums & Excursions issue 15 Gary Gygax notes "...I do not bother to place adventurers on any sort of graph if the group is three or less...more than three persons are in a party, we always require that they align themselves in a march order, the leader be in the front rank...when combat takes place we sometimes use miniatures...my favorite grid for character positions in combat is a large sheet of staggered squares covered with acetate." That is some interesting lore from way back. I was curious what the pros and cons of staggered squares might be over a square grid or hexes and not having much luck finding a good one online I made a sheet in Photoshop and printed it out large to test at the gaming table. It has some very interesting properties. Basically it works the same as hexagonal paper, but with the straight edge alignment properties of squares. The play test went really well, and you don't have that weird diagonal move effect where you move further relatively per square diagonally on a square grid. Square grids and hexagons are ubiquitous in games, but when was the last time you saw staggered squares? I first became aware of the staggered squares grid when reading a copy of TSR's first sci-fi game Star Probe and its sequel Star Empires which has a map of the galaxy on a staggered grid. Here is the grid I made, you are welcome to have and print out to try at home: Staggered Grid ImageNice! I am guessing here: perhaps the staggered box “hex” sheet was an innovation created by folks who enjoyed hex and counter games, but only had access to graph paper? I wonder.
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Post by tdenmark on Nov 10, 2021 12:39:56 GMT -6
Nice! I am guessing here: perhaps the staggered box “hex” sheet was an innovation created by folks who enjoyed hex and counter games, but only had access to graph paper? I wonder. Regular graph paper wouldn't work for this, it has to be custom made. I suppose you could take a regular sheet of graph paper and draw staggered rectangles each 2 squares wide. Or grids that are 4 squares each. I wasn't able to track down where Gary might have gotten staggered graph paper.
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Post by dicebro on Nov 10, 2021 13:59:41 GMT -6
Nice! I am guessing here: perhaps the staggered box “hex” sheet was an innovation created by folks who enjoyed hex and counter games, but only had access to graph paper? I wonder. Regular graph paper wouldn't work for this, it has to be custom made. I suppose you could take a regular sheet of graph paper and draw staggered rectangles each 2 squares wide. Or grids that are 4 squares each. I wasn't able to track down where Gary might have gotten staggered graph paper. I am thinking that it was John Snider who staggered the squares since he authored the map, not Gary.
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Post by rsdean on Nov 14, 2021 15:32:07 GMT -6
Well, you could draw a staggered squares grid with a ruler and a triangle, but drawing your own hex paper was a lot more difficult. Lou Zocchi might have had hex paper for sale (probably in the Avalon Hill usual 3/4” size), but my first hex sheets for development of a wilderness map came from SPI by mail order. Avalon Hill also sold sheets.
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Post by dicebro on Nov 14, 2021 15:41:57 GMT -6
Well, you could draw a staggered squares grid with a ruler and a triangle, but drawing your own hex paper was a lot more difficult. Lou Zocchi might have had hex paper for sale (probably in the Avalon Hill usual 3/4” size), but my first hex sheets for development of a wilderness map came from SPI by mail order. Avalon Hill also sold sheets. And now there is incompetech.com/graphpaper/brick/
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waer
Flunky
Posts: 3
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Post by waer on Feb 16, 2022 16:19:53 GMT -6
Greetings;
I'm starting up a game, hopefully by March 2022 (Although April is more realistic). I have a homebrew map (it's a cluster) of about 1700 systems. I am working on an addendum of Star Empires (which I'm sure is re-inventing the wheel, but there we go).
I plan for it to be done mostly by PBeM. My twin has been busy making open-sourced spreadsheets for both players and GM (I'll be the GM and NOT a player). I've created a Facebook group so I can upload the various PDF's of the map books, Addendum, etc. but NOT of the actual books (Star Probe and Star Empires). The way that I envisage the game to be run is mostly PBeM, and if any conflict or Diplomatic event occurs, run those in Fantasy Grounds Unity, using the Steam built in VoIP. I will have Race Portraits, tokens for the spaceships, armies, etc., Maps for Outer, Inner, Planetary combat.
So what would an interested person need? You would need the Star Empires book (copyright reasons), as well as to download the Fantasy Grounds Unity Demo program (Free), a Steam account (also free), a headset for VoIP, and a email account. The Facebook group is "Star Empires" Admin is James Bachop.
If interested drop me a line at Herdan@Shaw.ca
And not that age makes any difference....Proud owner of Chainmail and the original boxed 3 booklet set. I'll be kind and say we're in our 60's.
Take care
Waer
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waer
Flunky
Posts: 3
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Post by waer on Mar 1, 2022 12:16:08 GMT -6
Greetings All;
Unfortunately I seem to have been underwhelming as a salesman (smile). Well, if you wish to play this game, I'm willing to GM it and I've a player lined up.
What you need to play would be: Copy of the Star Empire Booklet A Steam (Valve) Account (for both the free demo program (Fantasy Grounds Unity Demo program)as well as the VoIP capability) An email account
Drop me a line at Herdan@shaw.ca
Take care all
Waer
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