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Post by thegreyelf on Jun 22, 2010 8:30:34 GMT -6
Tearing through this, it's a really neat look at the early days of D&D. What struck me, though, is that it's, well, really hard to run as it sits.
Why? Simple. Every monster in OD&D is defined by its Hit Dice. This determines how many attacks it gets, where it rolls on the attack tables, save tables, etc.
none of the monsters in Vampire Queen have hit dice listed.
Anyone else notice that?
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Post by Falconer on Jun 22, 2010 16:52:36 GMT -6
Don’t you have Vol. II and Sup. I? They contain all that information, handily compiled on tables (pp. 3-4 and p. 33, respectively). The Judges Guild “Monster Compendium” sheet might also be helpful. Maybe you’re saying it would be easier if they just reprinted that info in the module. It possibly never occurred to them to do so (or they didn’t get permission from TSR). Anyway, I never do when stocking a dungeon—I always look it up in the book when the time comes.
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Post by Morandir on Jun 22, 2010 17:16:31 GMT -6
I photocopied the list of monsters from Vol. II and taped it to my DM screen, so this won't be a problem when my copy arrives. Nonetheless, it is strange.
Mor
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Post by thegreyelf on Jun 23, 2010 7:29:39 GMT -6
Don’t you have Vol. II and Sup. I? They contain all that information, handily compiled on tables (pp. 3-4 and p. 33, respectively). The Judges Guild “Monster Compendium” sheet might also be helpful. Maybe you’re saying it would be easier if they just reprinted that info in the module. It possibly never occurred to them to do so (or they didn’t get permission from TSR). Anyway, I never do when stocking a dungeon—I always look it up in the book when the time comes. Sure, I have all of the OD&D stuff...but it sort of defeats the purpose of a module to have to do extra work in advance, or stop to look things up every combat. That I can *find* the stats if I want is moot against the fact that the module includes complete monster stats except for the most important stat.
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Post by Finarvyn on Jun 23, 2010 8:33:42 GMT -6
Remember that early dungeons like Arneson's Blackmoor simply used descriptive terms like "sorcerer" for monsters and the DM had to know what that meant. I think that a big part of the feel of the dungeon early on was very minimal monster stat blocks.
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Post by coffee on Jun 23, 2010 9:41:58 GMT -6
Remember that early dungeons like Arneson's Blackmoor simply used descriptive terms like "sorcerer" for monsters and the DM had to know what that meant. I think that a big part of the feel of the dungeon early on was very minimal monster stat blocks. Also the encounter tables from D&D itself. On the second level encounter table, for instance, you could run into Warriors, Conjurers and Theurgists. This translates as 2nd level Fighting-Men, 3rd level Magic-Users and 4th level Magic-Users. I don't think these guys were being paid by the word, so unnecessary repetition was considered ... unnecessary.
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Post by thegreyelf on Jun 23, 2010 14:49:29 GMT -6
Sure, I agree with that...except that they give detailed stat blocks for all the monsters, except for the single most important stat.
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Post by Falconer on Jun 24, 2010 14:14:13 GMT -6
Where are you seeing these detailed stat blocks? It looks to me like it only gives HP.
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Post by thegreyelf on Jun 25, 2010 8:55:36 GMT -6
Yeah, I noticed yesterday that it doesn't give AC, either.
Which really makes this module BARELY a step above something you might just do yourself. As I said, it's a neat look at the early history of RPGs, but I'm glad of the reprint. Had I paid collector's prices for this I might be pretty pissed at having spent that much on a module I can't run out of the book.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 11:37:14 GMT -6
Well, if you were purchasing it as a collector, I don't think some of those things would be a concern. People are paying the high prices more for scarcity than for the quality of the module.
I did have the honor of having Frank Mentzer DM the module at the first Gary Con a couple of years ago - had a lot of fun with it.
You have to remember, it was a completely different time and mindset when they wrote these things.
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Post by giantbat on Jul 1, 2010 22:44:57 GMT -6
Which really makes this module BARELY a step above something you might just do yourself. As I said, it's a neat look at the early history of RPGs, but I'm glad of the reprint. Had I paid collector's prices for this I might be pretty pissed at having spent that much on a module I can't run out of the book. I wish more modules were written that way. There's nothing in a module I want less than stat blocks. I consider them the opposite of the purpose of a module. To each his own.
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Post by James Maliszewski on Jul 21, 2010 20:47:16 GMT -6
I wish more modules were written that way. There's nothing in a module I want less than stat blocks. I consider them the opposite of the purpose of a module. To each his own. About the only stat I really need for a monster in a room description is its hit points, since I don't like rolling them up on the spot. Otherwise, I just refer to my Ready Ref Sheets and I'm set. Much more than that is unnecessary for a game like OD&D.
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Post by kenmeister on Jul 27, 2010 5:32:02 GMT -6
I wish more modules were written that way. There's nothing in a module I want less than stat blocks. I consider them the opposite of the purpose of a module. To each his own. About the only stat I really need for a monster in a room description is its hit points, since I don't like rolling them up on the spot. Otherwise, I just refer to my Ready Ref Sheets and I'm set. Much more than that is unnecessary for a game like OD&D. I always roll hit points on the spot, and I only roll them once the monster is injured. Makes me just as surprised as the players the way things turn out. So I don't need any stat blocks (except memorized spells and items carried for npcs)
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mythmere
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 293
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Post by mythmere on Aug 9, 2010 13:43:11 GMT -6
Including stats for monsters was one of the early innovations that I like. If they get too big, they can get in the way of that cool narrative feel which characterized early D&D resources, but as far as I'm concerned I like to have a module contain enough so that I don't need to look at a rulebook too often.
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Post by Malchor on Feb 19, 2021 16:02:25 GMT -6
Tearing through this, it's a really neat look at the early days of D&D. What struck me, though, is that it's, well, really hard to run as it sits. Why? Simple. Every monster in OD&D is defined by its Hit Dice. This determines how many attacks it gets, where it rolls on the attack tables, save tables, etc. none of the monsters in Vampire Queen have hit dice listed.Anyone else notice that? I print the sheets and add in HD, AC and Movement on the sheet. It is not much prep and gives me a chance to reread any special abilities or traits.
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