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Post by makofan on May 8, 2008 15:50:01 GMT -6
If you are Lawful AND have a blessed holy symbol, maybe you get given a shot at it
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jjarvis
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 278
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Post by jjarvis on May 9, 2008 5:56:34 GMT -6
I've never really had much of an issue with clerics (as presented in OD&D, D&D and 1stAD&D); Robin hood and his merry men included friar tuck.
Yeah sure he only fights in those stories but he is still a priest and in magical world he'd be getting spells assuming he was over 1st level.
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sham
Level 6 Magician
Posts: 385
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Post by sham on May 12, 2008 21:58:56 GMT -6
Since Turn Undead is rather vague in the LBB, and in my efforts to disassociate myself with AD&D in my house ruling process, the way I allow Clerics to use the ability is not overwhelmingly powerful.
I think back to the old vampire movies, where the undead would cower in fear, and be unable to approach the 'Cleric' brandishing his cross. IMC, when a Cleric turns undead, he needs to brandish his cross, and is allowed to do nothing else. If he stops, or is interrupted, the turning effect ends.
Undead so turned will be unable to approach the Cleric, and will only fight in self-defense.
It roughly amounts to a 'keep undead at bay' power. Certainly very useful, and allows the party to enjoy a measure of crowd control when facing the unliving.
The 'D' result I left as is, but it still only has a 30' range.
As far as merging the two spell lists, do you think that any MU player will actually ever memorize a Cure spell? The type of player who might do so is probably the type of player who might enjoy the Cleric class.
IMC in the past, Clerics have often saved the party's bacon by stepping into the front line and bearing the brunt of the melee when the FM have been dispatched. Then Curing or Raising their fallen companions. I can't see a MU doing that.
I can understand a S&S setting with no Clerics as PC's, but I can't see how trying to merge the spell lists makes much sense. If you want a Cure or a Raise Dead, you gotta drag those bloodied and bashed PCs back to town, and fork over some gold.
Just my opinion. I actually enjoy the three pronged OD&D FM-MU-C crown, though.
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Post by coffee on May 12, 2008 22:39:23 GMT -6
I gotta agree with Sham here; I like having Clerics around (of course, I've played a few...) And I really like your take on turning undead!
But I'm loving the discussion as well, so please keep it up!
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Bard
Level 3 Conjurer
The dice never lie.
Posts: 87
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Post by Bard on May 13, 2008 5:38:55 GMT -6
I think, that the clerics are very much milieu dependant. For example in my campaing there won't be clerics, because there is no such medieval like, christianity like, templar like order. If I decide, that there appear a new continent with a civilization where there is such thing, then there can be cleric characters coming from that region... I think, that the cleric is a great archetype. It can be imagined as a magic user subclass, because it uses magic, but it is a different magic than the magic user's magic. The illusionist is a class/subclass like this. The witch/warlock is another, the shaman is another etc.
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jochen
Level 1 Medium
Posts: 22
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Post by jochen on May 27, 2008 9:21:41 GMT -6
Greetings!
I happen to play a MMORPG named Last Chaos which is from its atmosphere as far as one can walk away from OD&D. It is all about learning skills and magic items are as common as bread in a bakery. However, while playing this of course the one or other thing inspires me as a referee of D&D as well. For example, there is a class called Elven Healer fighting with either Bow&Arrow or Staff while casting supportive spells for the group i.e. curing wounds mainly. I find this a good alternative for those who do not have much sympathy for the classic sacred type of cleric wearing heavy armor, turning undead and wielding a hammer.
So I came up with this:
Levels, XP, Fighting Capability, Dice for Accumaltive Hits, Spells per day and Spells in general would be just like BTB-cleric.
But the best armor a elven healer can wear would be (magic) leather armor. Elven healers are limited to Bows, Staffs, Staves, Slings and Daggers.
Elven Healers cannot turn undead; in general they are not as much dedicated to a certain deity as much as the cleric is.
I know this approach is lacking some typical OD&D-feel in it but most players in my environment came to the realm of roleplaying by AD&D2E, D&D3E or modern computer games and I think this is just a way to show new players in my games how flexible and adaptable OD&D is due to its light rules.
But I like to ask you for help with this one, because at the moment I am working on this class for my campaign and would love to have cool sounding level titles. Can you imagine good names for it? If yes, please help me out.
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Post by dwayanu on May 27, 2008 12:39:56 GMT -6
Like Sham's, my OD&D clerics get into more of a Hammer movie scene (versus the undead fleeing as in AD&D) when turning.
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Post by Geiger on May 27, 2008 13:35:31 GMT -6
There is no hate for the hammer-wielding, templar-like cleric in many of my campaigns. But for the current Thundarresque one, I just turned them into Shamans. Their magic is reminiscent of Werewolf the Apoc. ; using spirits as the power behind the spells. Turn undead implies calling a couple of his spirits buddies to hold the undead, while he unbinds the spirit that animates it.
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Post by coffee on May 27, 2008 14:03:53 GMT -6
There is no hate for the hammer-wielding, templar-like cleric in many of my campaigns. But for the current Thundarresque one, I just turned them into Shamans. Their magic is reminiscent of Werewolf the Apoc. ; using spirits as the power behind the spells. Turn undead implies calling a couple of his spirits buddies to hold the undead, while he unbinds the spirit that animates it. That is a very nifty take on it! I like it. |
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Post by Zulgyan on May 28, 2008 12:25:23 GMT -6
Statement: In S&S, not only the cleric does not fit, but the whole idea of magic healing spells. At least not with the frequency/neccesity of D&D.
What do you guys think?
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Post by makofan on May 28, 2008 12:46:42 GMT -6
I like my D&D with fighters and the odd magic user with plenty of 0-level henchmen dying (note: I have no problem with clerics, I just think they can be dispensed with)
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Post by coffee on May 28, 2008 13:15:42 GMT -6
Statement: In S&S, not only the cleric does not fit, but the whole idea of magic healing spells. At least not with the frequency/neccesity of D&D. What do you guys think? S&S generally has just Fighting-Men. The Cleric isn't there; you're right on that score. But the Magic-User is the bad guy. So that doesn't go all that well for D&D, but it's okay, because I like D&D just the way it is. |
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Post by Geiger on May 28, 2008 13:26:13 GMT -6
Statement: In S&S, not only the cleric does not fit, but the whole idea of magic healing spells. At least not with the frequency/neccesity of D&D. What do you guys think? Says who?!? ;D In true pulpy S&S, totally agree. D&D reflects so much more than S&S only though. Want to do a western, have at it, Sci-Fi is your cup of tea? why not. One of my favorite aspects of this fantastic game is its versatility. Just my two coppers  (edited because I wrote the original statement under the influence of café  ) |
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Post by Geiger on May 29, 2008 11:58:01 GMT -6
That is a very nifty take on it! I like it. Thanks! As the Shaman has to describe his spirit "helper" and he loves his Cthuloid critters, the image of the multi tentacled beings was fascinating... |
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