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Post by havard on Jul 16, 2010 15:44:13 GMT -6
"The moat surrounding the Castle was created by the great Wizard, Pissaic, about 400 years ago during the Ben-Hassock Invasions."
-FFC p 21.
Who were the Ben-Hassock? Are they linked to the Afridhi somehow? Or a Peshwa tribe?
Who as the great Wizard, Pissaic who lived in Blackmoor in the year ca 600?
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Post by aldarron on Jul 16, 2010 20:20:26 GMT -6
Pissaic? Oh you know, he's that fellow who built the moat.  Seems like something of an Archimides character. Of course, I know nothing, but I observe that "Ben Hassock" is a very jewish/arab sort of word, in which languages "Ben" means son and Ben Hassock would be a persons title meaning "son of Hassock". Since it has a hyphen, I guess it is a tribe (sons) rather than a person, but I should think he/they came up from the southern deserts, unrelated to Peshwa or Aifridhi. |
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Post by snorri on Jul 17, 2010 5:54:02 GMT -6
When I searched, all googlins led me to "passaic river", a river with impressive falls in New Jersey ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passaic_River), and also an ironclad boat during american civil war ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Passaic_(1862)) - this reference may be interesting for Dave ! As Blackmoor AC system came from Ironclads, that's allmost logical the moat came from an Ironclad too. Why did Passaic became Pissaic, that's another mystery. I agree with ben Hassock explanation. Hassock, as far I can see, is a piece of furniture from arabic countries (  ), so I have no problem to see the ben Hassock as arabic-style tribes. The surprise would be there's no such a tribe in Blackmoor: what is featured on Chainmail cover? |
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Post by James Maliszewski on Jul 17, 2010 9:48:56 GMT -6
I can't speak to who or what these names represent within the Blackmoor campaign, but I suspect that Snorri's on to something regarding the origins of the names. Dave was very interested in naval warfare during the US Civil War, so a reference to the USS Passaic isn't out of line, even if it's slightly obscured. Remember that many, many names with the Blackmoor setting are anagrams, in-jokes, or allusions to things in the real world and some of them have very whimsical origins. Ben-Hassock might be another example of this, as it's been my experience that Americans of a certain generation call an "ottoman" (a kind of upholstered foot stool) by the name "hassock" -- my grandparents did, for example -- so it's possible Dave did too. He may have even had one in his home and, like the fabled ceramic frog that gave birth to the Temple of the Frog, he might have been inspired by it.
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Post by havard on Jul 18, 2010 16:28:04 GMT -6
Pissaic? Oh you know, he's that fellow who built the moat. Seems like something of an Archimides character. Agreed. Perhaps also a pioneer in magic? As I mentioned over at the Comeback Inn, I would like to use him with the backstory of Kargas Dolmut from the Wizard's Cabal supplement; the guy who discovered wild magic in the North. Of course this means that Kargas "Pissaic" Dolmut was a ruler of Blackmoor. It is interesting that Blackmoor was originally ruled by wizards, but that in later years more martially oriented characters took over and wizards becoming more like advisors to the rulers. Interesting analysis of the words. Perhaps the original culture of the Valley of the Ancients? Or the people of the realm of Salik? Havard |
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Post by havard on Jul 18, 2010 16:36:38 GMT -6
When I searched, all googlins led me to "passaic river", a river with impressive falls in New Jersey ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passaic_River), and also an ironclad boat during american civil war ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Passaic_(1862)) - this reference may be interesting for Dave ! As Blackmoor AC system came from Ironclads, that's allmost logical the moat came from an Ironclad too. Why did Passaic became Pissaic, that's another mystery. Aha! That is interesting. Good point about Dave's interest. That might certainly have been where he got the name from. Googling a bit further, I found that the name is a Native American (Lenape) word meaning Valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passaic,_New_Jersey). The novel Nightshade of the Passaic was written far too late to have influenced Arneson, but from a D&D perspective, it would be interesting if the Wizard Pissaic ever encountered a Nightshade (from Mentzer). 8) Interesting. Well the FFC mentions "the Nomad" as one of the characters, but I always assumed this was the origin for the Peshwa? Havard |
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Post by havard on Jul 18, 2010 16:39:49 GMT -6
I can't speak to who or what these names represent within the Blackmoor campaign, but I suspect that Snorri's on to something regarding the origins of the names. Dave was very interested in naval warfare during the US Civil War, so a reference to the USS Passaic isn't out of line, even if it's slightly obscured. Remember that many, many names with the Blackmoor setting are anagrams, in-jokes, or allusions to things in the real world and some of them have very whimsical origins. Ben-Hassock might be another example of this, as it's been my experience that Americans of a certain generation call an "ottoman" (a kind of upholstered foot stool) by the name "hassock" -- my grandparents did, for example -- so it's possible Dave did too. He may have even had one in his home and, like the fabled ceramic frog that gave birth to the Temple of the Frog, he might have been inspired by it. Interesting input on the way names were formed by Arneson. I have also been discussing this subject with Rafael since it would be interesting to make further use of this tradition when coming up with new stuff for a Blackmoor campaign, to make preserve the original feel. I do like the theory that Dave had such a foot stool, and that it somehow made its way into the campaign!  Havard |
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Post by aldarron on Aug 23, 2010 13:33:42 GMT -6
Pissaic? Oh you know, he's that fellow who built the moat. Seems like something of an Archimides character. Of course, I know nothing, but I observe that "Ben Hassock" is a very jewish/arab sort of word, in which languages "Ben" means son and Ben Hassock would be a persons title meaning "son of Hassock". Since it has a hyphen, I guess it is a tribe (sons) rather than a person, but I should think he/they came up from the southern deserts, unrelated to Peshwa or Aifridhi. Reading the "final motes" in the infamous characters section describes the "chief of the nomads" who "Fortunetly.. keeps to the local deserts" In the Blackmoor castle's History section - Haunted rooms and the like: Baron Wesely "The Weasel" is said to have "fled to the lands of the Benn Hassocks" "lands" plural implies nomadic travel or a divided territory, either way it seems more likely the desert nomads were the Ben(n) Hassock. |
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Post by havard on Aug 23, 2010 14:33:02 GMT -6
Reading the "final motes" in the infamous characters section describes the "chief of the nomads" who "Fortunetly.. keeps to the local deserts" In the Blackmoor castle's History section - Haunted rooms and the like: Baron Wesely "The Weasel" is said to have "fled to the lands of the Benn Hassocks" "lands" plural implies nomadic travel or a divided territory, either way it seems more likely the desert nomads were the Ben(n) Hassock. Cool! Good catch about what happened to the Weasel too. I was always wondering about that I wonder if the Weasel truly was evil or whether he was just affected by the Egg's magic or something. Perhaps he is staying with the Nomad untill he can figure away to prove his innocence, or even trying to attone? -Havard |
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Post by aldarron on Aug 24, 2010 14:15:26 GMT -6
Reading the "final motes" in the infamous characters section describes the "chief of the nomads" who "Fortunetly.. keeps to the local deserts" In the Blackmoor castle's History section - Haunted rooms and the like: Baron Wesely "The Weasel" is said to have "fled to the lands of the Benn Hassocks" "lands" plural implies nomadic travel or a divided territory, either way it seems more likely the desert nomads were the Ben(n) Hassock. Cool! Good catch about what happened to the Weasel too. I was always wondering about that I wonder if the Weasel truly was evil or whether he was just affected by the Egg's magic or something. Perhaps he is staying with the Nomad untill he can figure away to prove his innocence, or even trying to attone? -Havard Well we will just have to ask Dave Wesely about that. |
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Post by gsvenson on Aug 24, 2010 15:32:01 GMT -6
Well we will just have to ask Dave Wesely about that. Well said! Most of the old group is still around. By all means, ask them! I am sure that they would be pleased to answer. |
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Post by havard on Aug 25, 2010 11:57:03 GMT -6
Well we will just have to ask Dave Wesely about that. Indeed! Anyway, here are my latest thoughts on this subject. The Ben Hassock could not have been Afridhi. The Afridhi are a much more recent threat to this part of the world, while the Ben Hassock date back a long way. Rather, I think the Ben Hassock aka the Desert Nomads, are those Peshwa tribes who lived on the border to the Valley of the Ancients. Dale Nelson was said to have controlled the Desert Nomads early on. I suspect that Sirk Am Peshwa from DA1 was modelled after Dale Nelson's character. Sirk Am Peshwa is curiously allied with (/bribed by) the Iron Duke. Havard |
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Post by aldarron on Aug 25, 2010 13:01:43 GMT -6
Yeah, that seems to fit, in which case there would be similarities to the peshwa of the plains and some interesting cultural differences too. My own thinking is that the Benn Hassock are the Nomads of Ten, which is essentially an eastern extension of the Karsh.
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Post by havard on Aug 25, 2010 13:25:28 GMT -6
Yeah, that seems to fit, in which case there would be similarities to the peshwa of the plains and some interesting cultural differences too. My own thinking is that the Benn Hassock are the Nomads of Ten, which is essentially an eastern extension of the Karsh. Hmm...yes the Nomads of Ten thing too. One thing about those guys that i noticed from the FFC is that they have Lycanthropes among their numbers... Havard |
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Post by aldarron on Aug 25, 2010 14:36:26 GMT -6
right, and elves and ents IIRC. Cool things for a wargame battle. Perhaps they are all captives and slaves forced to fight? FFC and OD&D has the nomads as slavers after all.
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Post by havard on Aug 25, 2010 14:48:47 GMT -6
right, and elves and ents IIRC. Cool things for a wargame battle. Perhaps they are all captives and slaves forced to fight? FFC and OD&D has the nomads as slavers after all. Possibly. I could see the Nomads having druids of a kind being able to control the Tree Men. DA4 doesn't have Treants, but Gakkaraks, who seem like a nastier version of Ents living in the Duchy of Ten. The elves could be Westryn, but they would be too suspicious of other races to work freely for them? Except perhaps as mercenaries? I will have to check the FFC again, but I got the impression that the Nomads of Ten were allies of the Duchy of Ten? -Havard |
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Seems like something of an Archimides character.
