Gygax Games

[delve]

Hiya Folks, does anyone know whats going on with the re-release of Gygax's last RPG?. Theres no info at all on their site, and the forum members look annoyed with the no info. What did you guys think about Lejendary Adventure?. I tried to run it when I bought a copy off of E-bay when it first came out. The artwork was a bit *shrugs* ok. The trollkins looked like childlike versions of Zippy the Clown *gabba gabba hey!*. One complaint I had about the game was the lack of advertising and not many hobby stores even carried it. So getting any additional material locally was difficult. Do you think it will be worth a try?. Or a hit and miss?

[Finarvyn]

I picked up a lot of the Lejendary Adventures stuff from the Troll Lords when they lost the license and had to liquidate stuff.

It seemed like a decent enough system but I never really got into it -- lots of folks really like it, though. I guess the problem I have is that it's not OD&D-like enough for my liking, which isn't a surprise since most games also fit that description.

I think the LA section of the TLG boards is shut down but there's still one open (but pretty inactive) at Dragonsfoot. There may be a lot more potential chatter there.

[Deleted]

Lejendary Adventure is rules-light and skill-based as opposed to class-based. Thus, if you wish to play a thief with spell-casting ability, it is easy to do with the RAW. I think it is a fine game and fun to play. I like the "rules light" approach, and the skill bundles make it easier to recreate certain characters from fantasy novels that are a difficult fit for D&D's rule systems.

I'll buy the new rules if they ever publish them, though I don't believe, at this point at least, they will ever replace D&D as my primary game.

[Mr. Darke]

I tried the essentials set of LA and really didn't care for it. I am more concerned on what happens with Castle Zagyg than LA but I am under no illusion that we'll see either LA or CZ anytime soon.

[benoist]

I have the three core books of LA and the Essentials boxed set.
I really like this game.

I can't help but think that CZ receiving no further development, at least for a while, is an opportunity in disguise since it makes us imagine the heck out of it.

[Haldo Bramwise]

LA is a great game.
I think that Gail Gygax is slowly working through her options.
LA's one of those games you really don't "get" until you actually play it.

[Mr. Darke]

Jul 29, 2009 19:32:10 GMT -6 benoist said:

I can't help but think that CZ receiving no further development, at least for a while, is an opportunity in disguise since it makes us imagine the heck out of it.

That is where I am at.

[waysoftheearth]

I'm fortunate to have a copy of LA signed by Gary, but sadly I have never had the opportunity to play.

I have to agree with with Coleston, in as much as having not actually played, I don't think I "get" it.

A lot of very wise folks have given it the thumbs up, but for me the jury is still out. My initial impression -- after reading it -- was that it seemed quite complicated. Of course a real sit down game may well show it to be otherwise!

[thegreyelf]

Jul 29, 2009 20:29:26 GMT -6 Haldo Bramwise said:

LA is a great game.
I think that Gail Gygax is slowly working through her options.
LA's one of those games you really don't "get" until you actually play it.

I think that by tearing all the licenses from Troll Lord Games, Gail Gygax has turned her back on a significant portion of Gary's current fan base, and harmed his legacy in ways she doesn't realize. But that's a common theme when estate holders decide there's some sort of "integrity" to a property that can only be maintained by altering everything the original holder wanted.

It's similar to Christopher Tolkien keeping an iron grip on the Middle Earth properties, which his father wanted to be a living, breathing, shared mythology. Gail has torn Gary's licenses away from the very people Gary himself said he wanted to have them.

[benoist]

Jul 30, 2009 6:16:07 GMT -6 thegreyelf said:

It's similar to Christopher Tolkien keeping an iron grip on the Middle Earth properties, which his father wanted to be a living, breathing, shared mythology. Gail has torn Gary's licenses away from the very people Gary himself said he wanted to have them.

I disagree.

I think we do not know what EGG thought about these legal matters, nor what he did share about his thoughts with Gail, specifically. I think we shouldn't judge based on this or that post or article of Gary's, because much of what he wrote depended on the specificities of the contexts in which they were put together (like the "if you're not playing by these rules, you're not playing AD&D(TM)" statement, for instance).

On the topic of JRR Tolkien, I am absolutely convinced that Christopher Tolkien is acting completely in tune with his father's wishes. Remember that JRRT was extremely critical of other interpretations of his work, and didn't like departures from his materials in the slightest. Middle-earth had an inner coherence and integrity JRR wanted to preserve. That was, actually, the purpose of his life's work, when you think about it. I think it's factually inaccurate to portray Christopher Tolkien as someone who doesn't understand his father's last wishes or substitutes them for a more personal agenda.

We may be disappointed as fans of EGG, but let's not go after Gail on this one. That's the last thing he would have wanted.

[thegreyelf]

It's hard to take, "My properties belong at Troll Lord Games because they and their games are the spiritual successors of my D&D" in any other way...but we can agree to disagree on that.

I also happen to be friends with some of the guys from TLG, so I admit to being a bit defensive of them.

[Mr. Darke]

Let's not go this route guys. I have seen these threads on TLG's boards and they get ugly quick.

[thegreyelf]

Jul 30, 2009 13:27:48 GMT -6 Mr. Darke said:

Let's not go this route guys. I have seen these threads on TLG's boards and they get ugly quick.

Not gonna. That's why I said "agree to disagree" . I don't want to be a party to these boards turning unfriendly, and I'm sure benoist doesn't, either.

[coffee]

That's one of the things I love about this forum. We can conduct a civil conversation about an issue that might invoke (or provoke) incivility in others.

[benoist]

Jul 30, 2009 13:40:44 GMT -6 thegreyelf said:

Not gonna. That's why I said "agree to disagree" . I don't want to be a party to these boards turning unfriendly, and I'm sure benoist doesn't, either.

Absolutely! We do agree to agree to disagree.

...

If that makes sense.

[Mr. Darke]

It does and it is why I am coming here more and more.

[benoist]

Jul 30, 2009 20:22:40 GMT -6 Mr. Darke said:

It does and it is why I am coming here more and more.

Amen to that, brother!

[delve]

Gygax created a great game, and a few attempts after to create another, they were good but not like the first one. I'm wondering now since he has passed on. Where is the next BIG RPG, is there another hidden Gygax out there?, or will we hope they republish his early works to be presented to the next generation. His old works of D&D and AD&D have stood the test of time. Devoted fans still gather and flip through the aging books. I really hope someday some company republishes it, I mean with the open licence now. How come no one has?

[Finarvyn]

Jul 31, 2009 19:33:39 GMT -6 delve said:

Devoted fans still gather and flip through the aging books. I really hope someday some company republishes it, I mean with the open licence now. How come no one has?

Delve, there are legal reasons why no one can just republish the original books exactly as they were before, but there are groups doing almost what you suggest at the moment.

Swords & Wizardry and Swords & Wizardry: Whitebox are "clones" of OD&D with and without supplements. You can buy it print-on-demand or get a free download.

Basic Fantasy RPG and Labyrinth Lords are both clones of Basic/Expert. Also POD and free download.

OSRIC is an AD&D clone. POD and free download.

Castles & Crusades isn't free and not an actual clone, but it's 3E trimmed back to 1E and one of my favorites of the bunch.

Spellcraft & Swordplay isn't an actual clone, either, but is very similar to OD&D with a more Chainmail-style approach to combat.

In addition, most of these products are seeing some support. Each of these has its own forum space to discuss the game with others. Many of these have modules to play the game. C&C has probably the largest support, as it's a full-on game company, and our own Brave Halfling announced that they would be producing a whole line of modules at regular intervals. There are at least two old-school magazine-type publications being produced and sold by folks here (Knockspell and Fight On!) and on Dragonsfoot a 3rd (Footprints) can be downloaded for free.

All that's missing is the actual wording and the actual artwork, and there is just no way that WotC will allow anyone to reproduce that. Otherwise, the old style of gaming is quite active at the moment.

And this board seems to be at the center of it.

[Mr. Darke]

I'm pretty fond of C&C and S&W with S&W becoming a fast favorite. I don't see S&W so much as a clone but as the 'Second Edition' of OD&D that never was.