Pulp Fantasy

[doc]

I'd like to talk a but about what exactly Pulp Fantasy is and how it differs from more modern tropes of fantasy fiction in terms of characters, setting, magic, etc. However, the topic may include some ideas that are particularly unsavory such as slavery, manipulative religions, and antagonists that consign themselves to demons/devils in a bid for power. Dark topics to be sure, but things that tended to pop up quite a bit in old fantasy yarns.

So, before I post, I just want to make sure that it is okay and that I won't be offending anybody.

Please let me know.

Doc

[James Maliszewski]

Go for it!

I'm certainly of the opinion that "pulp fantasy" is an integral part of what makes D&D the game it is, so I'd be curious to discuss how you define it and how you think it connects to OD&D.

[coffee]

I'm cool with it. I think the crowd here is mature enough to either accept it for what it is or to avoid it entirely if they feel it would offend them.

If you're really worried, however, you could ask our esteemed Master of the Forum, Finarvyn, to open a special place where topics of such potential controversy could be discussed. Then people would know, going in, that there might be something they could get good and offended by.

[Deleted]

Sounds good to me, doc; I'd love to contribute! ;D

[Finarvyn]

I'm not sure that this topic will offend anyone. If it seems to then I can deal with it at the time.

Maybe my understanding of the topic is limited, but "the pulps" were a bunch of magazines in the 1920's-40's or so, right? Much of the Edgar Rice Burroughs, H.P. Lovecraft, Buck Rogers, and Robert E. Howard style material were published in these magazines.

Most of the magazine covers tended to cater to the "save the damsel" style of artwork with bare-chested swordsmen and/or green alien creatures. My understanding is that "the pulps" were mostly an American literature medium and that they were printed cheaply and in large quanitites compared to "legitimate" fiction which was published in book form.

Is this what we want to discuss?

[James Maliszewski]

admin said:

Is this what we want to discuss?

Doc can speak for himself, but I presumed what he intended to discuss was not merely fantasy as it appeared in the pulps but "pulp fantasy" broadly taken to mean any fantasy whose roots and inspirations harken back to them. Many of the authors whom Gygax cites as his primary sources are not, strictly speaking, pulp authors because most, if not all, of their works didn't appear in that format. However, they're all in the "tradition" of the pulps, whose contents weren't all one-dimensional wish-fulfillment escapades, as they are commonly described nowadays.

Anyway, I'll let Doc start this off and we can go from there. As you may have guessed, I have a lot to say on this topic

[coffee]

I'm looking forward to this discussion. I missed out on the pulps when they were being published, but I know that that's where Robert E. Howard published most (if not all) of his work.

[doc]

Just to let you all know, it's not that I personally think there's anythong really offensive about what I may speak about, but I have only been here for a week and I'm not certain what other peoples sensibilities are.

While pulp heroes were indeed big in the depression days of the USA, they had their origins in the British Penny Dreadfuls that told tales of bloody highwaymen, ruthless vampires, master criminals, and sex-crazed mad monks (to name a very few). In the USA, the pulps gained a negative reputation for glorifying violence, particularly violence towards women, not only in their stories but in their very lurid covers.

At any rate, I'm gonna start with the pulp heroes themselves:

WHAT IS PULP FANTASY

Most fantasy enthusiasts could, if asked, name some of the most prominent characters of pulp fantasy. Conan. Jirel of Joiry. The Grey Mouser. But what MAKES them pulp heroes? How are they different from Tanis Half-Elvin or Drizzt Do‘Urden? How is the Lankhmar series different than, say, the Black Company novels?

Let’s take a brief look.

THE HERO

The pulp stories always centered around the hero. They were at eye of the storm and wherever they were, that was where the action was. Other characters may have held greater prestige or wielded more potent power, but the hero was clearly the driving force behind the story. He (for heroes in pulp fantasy were almost always male) was always an outsider in some way. A barbarian unfamiliar with the ways of civilization, or perhaps a wealthy noble from a far off land who’s customs were alien to the people who resided in the location of the stories. He might even have been from another world, startlingly different in appearance from all those around him. Whatever the case, he was always picked out as being different from those around him and was looked upon with a certain level of distrust, fear, or even disgust because of it.

The difference was not always one of location. It was not unheard of for stories to focus on great kings who ruled an entire nation. But even then, something set the monarch apart from his followers. He might have been a quester for a bright future amongst a people who preferred to live in bloody barbarism. He might have been a wild soul willing to throw his crown aside and take up the life of a pirate. On the other end of the social strata, a pulp fantasy hero might be a thief and outlaw in a highly structured civilization where such activities would earn terrible punishment.

In any event, the pulp fantasy hero is always a man apart. A man cut against the grain and singled out as a figure of destiny.

Another common aspect of the pulp fantasy hero is that he was a man of action. He may have been complex, but he was never deep. He never sat and thought up complicated schemes or convoluted plots to achieve his goals; he acted in a flurry of movement and made shirt up as he went along. Pulp fantasy heroes are absolutely certain in their thoughts, never second guessing themselves or experiencing existential doubt. Solomon Kane never once questioned himself as to why he chose to leave a safe life to travel the world and fight evil; he did it simply because evil needed to be fought and vanquished. That was as deep as it got.

A pulp fantasy hero had a strong moral core. Even if he was a thief or assassin, he adhered to a strong and often strict moral code that often forbade such actions as cowardice, dishonesty, and treachery. All of these things verboten by the moral code would inevitably be portrayed as common in the culture or setting in which the stories took place. In effect, the hero was made to be shown as being morally above and beyond the folk who deemed him an outsider, possessing the inner strength of character that the venal folk of civilization were shown to lack.

The heroes of the pulp fantasy genre relied on what they were born with: their brawn, guts, and cunning, to help them fight the terrors that they were so often faced with. These stories would pit seemingly indomitable monsters of magic and nightmare against a savage champion armed only with steel and sinew, and the mortal would invariably win out due to his overwhelming will to survive. The arcane enhancements of later fantasy: magical weapons, enchanted armors, spells of protection and the like, were anathema to the mighty heroes of pulp fantasy. Indeed, to rely on a weapon forged by magic and enchantment would have been seen as a sign of weakness and self-doubt by such a character. Why would a warrior need anything to win his battles except what the gods had granted him at birth? Obviously, if a swordsman could not survive just by his wits and his will then he was not meant to survive at all!

As a final note, the women of pulp fantasy, while rare as protagonists, were every bit as strong and fiery in battle as their male counterparts. Usually, just being a female willing to take up a sword and live as a warrior was enough for society to brand them an outsider. Female heroes in sword and sorcery settings invariably had dismal origins. They were either former slaves, pleasure girls, or impoverished peasants. There was usually some horrible tragedy in their past that precipitated their decision to lead the life of a wandering warrior. Whether is was rape, the murder of their family, being falsely accused of witchcraft, or being betrayed by a loved one, few female characters were ever happy. If a female character ever developed a close emotional tie, it was with another female, though such a relationship was rarely romantic or sexual in nature.

More to come....

Doc

[crimhthanthegreat]

Great stuff doc and great post, I look forward to your development of the topic. One of the first books this makes me think of is ERB's The Mucker and Return of the Mucker. In my mind "The Mucker" is clearly a pulp hero.

[coffee]

It's been ages since I read the Mucker, but yes, he certainly is a pulp hero! Thanks for the memories, guy, and I too am looking forward to the development of this thread.

[thorswulf]

Wow! A great overview of what a pulp hero is doc! I recently re-read the Jirel stories, and she definately fits outside of the usual pulp heroine definition.

I think one HUGE difference between modern fantasy and pulp fantasy is the background setting. Most modern fantasy focuses on the world around the central characters. This is all well and good for fiction writing with todays standards, and creative writing classes as well. But this is not pulp fiction. Pulps tend to concentrate everything down to one simple location, usually in darkness, or near darkness to evoke proper mood and tone. Old temples should be scary and dark! Modern fantasy would delve into the socio ecenomic reasons the temple fell into neglect. In pulps it's d**n scary, dark and has a very bad reputation! Just a few cents worth!

[coffee]

I just wanted to add that much of what you've said about pulp fantasy heroes can be applied to other pulp heroes as well. The private eye, for instance; much of what you said describes both Phillip Marlowe and the Continental Op.

[doc]

aaaand speaking of settings, part two of my pulp fantasy column.

THE SETTING

Most sword and sorcery settings were nebulous lands that were either reflections of a more primitive part of Earth’s distant past, or another world with societies that were similar enough to ancient Earth cultures to make them peripherally familiar to readers. The lands, countries and kingdoms had ill-defined borders and there were often inconsistencies throughout a series as to where one land would be in relation to another. Robert E. Howard, in his tales of Hyboria, kept his locations purposefully vague. It wasn’t until decades after Howard’s death that maps of the Hyborian Age began to be drawn up and included in copies of his novels.

There was no social reform in the typical sword and sorcery setting. The government ruled with an iron fist and those who could not afford to live up to the standards of society were swept away. The whole thought of the wealthy distributing funds or food to the lower classes, or regarding them with anything but scorn and contempt, was alien. The delineation between rich and poor tended to be pretty cut and dry. The aristocrats and nobles, all circling around whatever king, emperor, or other ruler happened to be in control, had the best of everything. They lived in great estates served by countless nubile young slaves of both genders , ate their fill, drank and debauched themselves regularly, and held themselves above the law of the land. The lower class consisted of workers, peasants, and the destitute, all scrabbling to earn a few shekels to keep some sort of meat on the table. Thievery was usually rampant and there tended to be a vast but impotent anger directed towards the ruling class.

Slavery, a huge taboo in our modern world, was almost taken for granted in the worlds of pulp fantasy. If a person was not powerful enough to keep themselves free, then (according to the mores of the genre) they did not deserve their freedom. Slaves were a common fixture in pulp adventures, from the beautiful pleasure girl who secretly slips the hero a dagger to the scheming eunuch who plots to manipulate the hero into murdering his overbearing master. The modern concept that every human being has basic rights are unheard of in sword and sorcery. Many a barbaric protagonist got their first taste of civilization at the end of a slaver’s chain, marching to the gladiatorial pits. Slavery was seen as a common practice and never would you see a fantasy protagonist so socially aware that he would take it on himself to abolish slavery (well, okay; Kull did it, but he was the only one). Except for the pretty girl that he would take with him as he escaped from the evil baron’s castle, the pulp fantasy hero tended to see slavery as just one more evil of civilized society and rarely took up arms to stamp it out.

RELIGION

The gods of sword and sorcery tended to be a pretty standoffish lot. That is, mortal men prayed to their powerful gods, but rarely, if ever, received a reply. It was often implicitly understood by the writer and his readers that the gods were nonexistent, living only in the minds of their faithful. Not that this stopped the folk of pulp fantasy tales from believing any less fervently. It was considered unwise to disbelieve in the gods, fur just incase they were real you would be sealing your own death by such blasphemy. The gods and goddesses of sword & sorcery were to be feared as much as revered.

Religion was more often than not used as a weapon. A schemer desiring power would use the local church to his own advantage, taking command through tactics fair or foul to further his own dubious agenda. At times this villain might even be a true believer, though one who believed that he and he alone knew the true desires of his god. The leader was just as likely to be a high priestess as a high priest, and the pulps are full of exotic women of enigmatic beauty who have given themselves over as a bride to their god and claimed to speak for their husbands in the lands of men.

Cults were a special subtype of religion. Where a religion was embraced by an entire people, a cult was smaller, insular, and secretive. Almost always a cult was an underground movement outlawed by the rulers of the land. Also unlike most religions, cults were backed by a true power. The “god” of a cult was usually some sort of other planer demon or the last surviving member of a monstrous race thought dead for thousands of years and now hidden away in the bowels of the city, the sewer system, or in some forbidding temple. The cults tended to be at odds with the laws of the land, looking to follow their own agenda and promoting the plans of their dark master (or high priest, whatever the case may be).

more to come...

Doc

[greentongue]

YES!!!

(and this is why I love the OEPT setting.)
=

[Deleted]

This is great, doc. I don't really have anything to add to this thread...you've pretty much said it. Period. I can't wait for more!

[thorswulf]

The only thing I could add about religion would be about some of the more weird stuff that Clark Ashton Smith wrote about ancient non humans and religious cults. This tends to pop up infrequebtly in the pulps, usually as the remnants of an ancient civilization ala Lovecraft, or Doc Savage. Of course these places can be hidden from the eyes of the modern world like Tibet was!

[crimhthanthegreat]

Doc, keep writing, this is a great essay, I am enjoying it tremendously.

Doc Savage, there is another favorite of mine, the early ones especially were very tasty yarns.

[doc]

Not to get too much off topic, but Doc Savage was somebody that I always considered to be a Paladin class character. He didn't swear fealty to a lord, had no strong religious ideals, and he never killed his enemies (though his aides certainly did), but he was the guy who used everything in his power to bring justice to the world and to make it a better place for everybody. He was vastly wealthy, but he made sure that his wealth was distributed to those who needed it most. He expected the best of intentions from everybody, but was wise enough to know evil when he saw it.

One could make an argument that the Shadow was also a paladin, though a very different one indeed.

Doc

[thorswulf]

Indeed. I'm a fan of the dark Avenger type of paladin myself.... Maybe I'm jumping ahead of your next big posting here, but Ill guess it deals with Magic. Or rather, magic is usually the tool of a villain, or extremely suspicious even if it is holy!

[Deleted]

The Batman would be a dark paladin. They call him the "dark knight" and he always fights for good over evil.

I like both kinds of paladins, both the "fight for good" and "dark avenger" kinds. They are really like different classes, however. Someone should write up "dark avenger" as its own character class.

[serendipity]

One thing that strikes me about pulp fiction is the inevitable use of grandiose cliffhangers that are resolved--with extreme melodrama--at the last minute and almost exclusively by the hero. (In the next chapter, of course, to keep you reading.) How many times can our hero save the world? How can he manage to continue with the grievous, life-sucking wound(s) [wounds which a normal mortal would never be able to overcome] and under such inhumane conditions? Surely his spirit must be broken soon! Stay tuned and find out. Same bat time....

[Finarvyn]

serendipity said:

the inevitable use of grandiose cliffhangers that are resolved--with extreme melodrama--at the last minute and almost exclusively by the hero

Agreed. When I read John Carter of Mars (and many of the other pulp classics) I realize that it's all about the cliffhangers.

Sometimes everyone on the planet (except for the hero) can see the solution to the puzzle, but it's the thrill of getting there that's the key.

[serendipity]

admin said:

When I read John Carter of Mars (and many of the other pulp classics) I realize that it's all about the cliffhangers.

Sometimes everyone on the planet (except for the hero) can see the solution to the puzzle, but it's the thrill of getting there that's the key.

I think so, too. That's what makes them such fun. You can't take them seriously--who can save the world six times before breakfast?

[Deleted]

Chuck Norris.

[doc]

MAGIC

One of the biggest differences between sword & sorcery tales and other types of fantasy is the attitude taken towards magic. There are no whimsical enchanters or happy elfin conjurers; magic is a tool of darkness that the hero must struggle against. The fragile mind of Man cannot contain the power of magic, for it will invariably corrupt him and turn him against his fellows. Magic is an addiction, and the more of it that you learn, the greater the desire to master more. The sane and the wise greatly fear magic, for they know that it is a remnant of a far older, more chaotic period of the world’s history that holds no real place in the emerging world of civilization and politics.

Those who seek to master the intricacies of magic have placed themselves on a path apart from all others. They may be noble dukes or slave-born wretches, but are always feared by the populace. The practice of magic in pulp fantasy generally entails the summoning of demons and other unearthly creatures of great power. Sometimes these unwholesome entities teach their mortal applicants the secrets of manipulating reality to their whim, while in other tales it is the creatures themselves that carry out the tasks that would be impossible for mere humans.

The magic of pulp fantasy wasn’t the whiz-bang of Raistlin and Harry Potter, shooting off fireballs from their fingertips. Magic was subtle and devious, generally effecting the mind and body over a period of time. This subtlety caused warlocks and their ilk to be feared even more: you could be the victim of an enemy’s spell and not even realize it until it was far too late to counter the effect.

Magic, as depicted in sword & sorcery fiction, was a metaphor for power. As the saying goes, power corrupts, and that is how it is portrayed in the stories. The sorcerer becomes terrifying in his quest for greater power, willing to sacrifice his lovers, family, country, even his very soul for the promise of gaining the ability to impose his will upon the material world and to shape it to his desires.

A second common reason for taking up sorcery was pure survival. Priests of forbidden gods or rulers of decadent kingdoms were always in danger of losing their lives to those who would seek to end their blasphemous ways, so they turned to the dark arts for the power to prevail over those who would wish to destroy them. It was a reoccurring theme in the pulps to have a great ruler who was steeped in black magic, sometimes without his hobby being public knowledge in his kingdom. In terms of storyline and higher meaning, this made the hero’s enemy twice as deadly as he held not only material power in the form of riches and vast armies, but also otherworldly power that no man could hope to stand against. This made the struggle all the more seemingly hopeless, and the ensuing victory all the more amazing. It is important to recall that in the 1930’s and early 40’s most citizens were trying to eke out a living in desperate times and many did not understand what was going on in the world to bring about such poverty and desolation. When a pulp hero could succeed against a foe with vast wealth and the command of the unknown, they established a connection with the reader who himself would have been glad of such a victory in his own life.

Heroes rarely, if ever, used magic. The few that did (Elric, Kane, etc.) were considered dark and tainted by their exposure to sorcery and their willingness, even eagerness, to use it against their foes. The Grey Mouser knew a few tricks, but they paled in comparison to true sorcery. Even so, he used them sparingly as he realized their corruptive influence upon him. To use magic as a regular means of solving hardships would lead to a dependency upon the unknown, in time dulling the hero’s wits and reactions, and taking the steel from his sword arm. In the pulps, it was always far more reliable to trust in grit and instinct than it was in the murky and corrupting dark arts.

More to come...

Doc

[dwayanu]

I've enjoyed running games in the classic sword & sorcery or sword & planet vein, but have found that to many (perhaps most) people it just doesn't "feel like" D&D.

I personally find the Norse/Tolkien "fey folk" the most jarring game feature in such a context. I can more easily compromise on the matter of PC spellcasters and having a few magical treasures in PC hands. No Hyborian Age Hobbits, though!

Really, I have come to find King Arthur Pendragon (adjusted, natch, for a different setting) most suitable for fidelity to the s&s genre (or for that matter to most heroic fantasy not influenced by D&D).

There's an art to weaving the "pulp" and "high fantasy" threads in D&D. I think Arneson, Gygax and Kuntz -- and the Judges Guilders behind the Wilderlands and City State -- pull it off well.

[geoffrey]

doc said:

The practice of magic in pulp fantasy generally entails the summoning of demons and other unearthly creatures of great power. Sometimes these unwholesome entities teach their mortal applicants the secrets of manipulating reality to their whim, while in other tales it is the creatures themselves that carry out the tasks that would be impossible for mere humans.

Ever since I started playing D&D in 1980, I've felt that (paradoxically) D&D magic doesn't feel D&Dish. Summoning, binding, and banishing demons (or, even better, Cthulhoid entities) oozes D&D feel to me. Perhaps part of the reason was that Deities & Demigods was one of my first A/D&D purchases, and I spent an inordinant amount of time poring over the Cthulhu Mythos therein.

[James Maliszewski]

dwayanu said:

There's an art to weaving the "pulp" and "high fantasy" threads in D&D. I think Arneson, Gygax and Kuntz -- and the Judges Guilders behind the Wilderlands and City State -- pull it off well.

And a lost art at that. One of the points I frequently try to make clear to people is that D&D is really a strange goulash in terms of "genre." Its skeleton is very much based in sword & sorcery/pulp fantasy conventions but many of its muscles and sinews derive from other sources, including high fantasy. It's an unstable Frankenstein monster of a thing and, by and large, most people tend to fixate solely on the high fantasy elements, but when you have a skilled referee, the interplay between these two strains of fantasy produces some really fantastic results.

[doc]

When I think of Sword & Sorcery, I tend to think of some of the better B-fantasy films of the 80's and 90's. Beastmaster, Conan the Barbarian, and the later Scorpion King all make me jones for a sword & sorcery game. None of them have gotten the genre exactly right, but they do a good job of translating the kinetic, don't-stop-for-a-second feel of a well paced fantasy.

For a sword & sandal game, anything with Mark Forest as Maciste is a good bet. This guy was Lou Ferrigno before Lou was Lou Ferrigno.

Doc

[Finarvyn]

geoffrey said:

Ever since I started playing D&D in 1980, I've felt that (paradoxically) D&D magic doesn't feel D&Dish.

Now, that's an odd statement.

Magic is always the wild card. Magic is often what makes one world unique from another, yet the D&D magic system is intended to cover magical situations for all worlds. Perhaps the magic system (although easy to play) is the biggest weakness in the OD&D rules system?

A nice resource is the 2E DM Option book on magic. In that tome, there are several styles of magic outlined -- from the traditional D&D magic to a spell-point system, to emotional magic, and so on. I know that more recent books and systems like True20 and Monte Cook's World of Darkness have attempted to bring new variations into D&D style magic, and perhaps one of those has a more "pulp" feel to it.

I know that when I think about pulp magic, I tend to imagine ancient evil sorcerers in Conan casting spells to control kings or bring mummies back to life. Magic in the pulps usually seems a lot darker and more sinister than magic in more modern books.