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Post by piper on Apr 7, 2010 19:44:23 GMT -6
These are the same numbers that appear in "Men & Magic", just rearranged (IMO) in a more usable way.  |
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Post by piper on Apr 7, 2010 19:55:11 GMT -6
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Post by Haldo Bramwise on Apr 7, 2010 20:16:56 GMT -6
Nice!
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Arminath
Level 4 Theurgist
WoO:CR
Posts: 150
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Post by Arminath on Apr 7, 2010 23:17:50 GMT -6
I like this alot as well, but it does bring a couple of glaring 'oddities' up that have always niggled at me:
Is a natural '1' automatically a miss and if not then why not just represent those AC to-hits with something like an 'A' for 'Automatic Hit' since you can't miss them?
On the monster table, which line does an 11HD monster use?
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Post by piper on Apr 8, 2010 4:00:04 GMT -6
Thanks for the nice words!
I've always played it as a 1 always being a miss and 20 always being a hit. So, in my version of the table I've replaced the 1 with a 2.
As far as the 11 HD monsters goes, I've always figured the high end of the chart sort of mirrors the low end. So, the last line has "11+1 & Up" penciled in. I figure it is probably what the author intended and, even if it isn't, it works nicely for me!
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Post by waysoftheearth on Apr 8, 2010 6:57:40 GMT -6
Very nicely done indeed! And for the busy ref who prefers fewer tables, here is a combined view of the same information...  |
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Post by makofan on Apr 8, 2010 7:04:20 GMT -6
Ooh I like that! Have an EXALT, both of you
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Post by Haldo Bramwise on Apr 8, 2010 7:38:22 GMT -6
Very nicely done indeed! And for the busy ref who prefers fewer tables, here is a combined view of the same information... *Heavenly Choir* Very nice work guys! I'm stealing it! |
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Arminath
Level 4 Theurgist
WoO:CR
Posts: 150
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Post by Arminath on Apr 8, 2010 7:45:23 GMT -6
Very nicely done indeed! And for the busy ref who prefers fewer tables, here is a combined view of the same information... Yes, an even nicer and compact format for a Ref Screen! |
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Post by aldarron on Apr 8, 2010 8:44:00 GMT -6
I like this alot as well, but it does bring a couple of glaring 'oddities' up that have always niggled at me: Is a natural '1' automatically a miss and if not then why not just represent those AC to-hits with something like an 'A' for 'Automatic Hit' since you can't miss them? On the monster table, which line does an 11HD monster use? The impression I got from a couple of questions I asked Tim Kask is that numbers in the tables that don't seem to make sense by the rules are left there for DM's to play with in their house rules and because there should aways be some kind of an improbable chance to do anything in a fantasy game. |
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Post by piper on Apr 8, 2010 20:30:10 GMT -6
And for the busy ref who prefers fewer tables, here is a combined view of the same information... Nice, WotH! Much neater than my presentation. Have an exalt. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Apr 9, 2010 19:54:39 GMT -6
The impression I got from a couple of questions I asked Tim Kask is that numbers in the tables that don't seem to make sense by the rules are left there for DM's to play with in their house rules and because there should aways be some kind of an improbable chance to do anything in a fantasy game. Thanks Aldarron, it pleases the rampant rules tinkerer in me immeasurably to hear that! The coarseness of advancement in the attack matrix has always seemed somewhat unsatisfactory to me -- especially in that fighting-men are not differentiated from other PCs (nor even from common serfs) until level 4. For all his combat training, fighting experience and weapon expertise, and a 3rd level fighting man is still no more accurate than a lowly Kobold. As a result I have often used "smoothed" variations of the attack matrices to address this complaint, and thought this thread as good a place as any to share my thoughts... For those that may be interested in such niceties, I have found that the issue can be addressed by applying the following adjustments to the original attack matrices;  Note that level 0 is introduced for "unclassed" commoners and the like. Of course, the next logical step is to create an adjusted matrix so you don't need to think about applying an adjustment to each and every attack roll. As fortune would have it I have already done all the work for you  The result is as follows...  Note also that the bold entries in the last two rows have been "smoothed" (by adding +1). However, I cannot recall ever having gamed with characters of high enough level to make use of them. Enjoy ;D |
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Post by Haldo Bramwise on Apr 9, 2010 20:28:12 GMT -6
I have always enjoyed the "coarseness" of the 3 LBBs. I think it is just natural for the big jumps at 4th (Hero) and 8th level (Superhero).
But that's still good work there, waysoftheearth!
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Post by waysoftheearth on Apr 9, 2010 21:49:39 GMT -6
I think it is just natural for the big jumps at 4th (Hero) and 8th level (Superhero). Yes, but by the book fighting-men advance at levels 4, 7, 10, 13 and 16. So if the majority of your play tends to be toward the lower end of the spectrum (levels 1 to 3, say) then your fighters are really no different (attack matrix-wise) to any other character -- including ordinary men and sewer rats! I guess I like to think of my fighting men as a "cut above" the average dogsbody |
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Post by Falconer on Apr 11, 2010 17:15:46 GMT -6
The coarseness of advancement in the attack matrix has always seemed somewhat unsatisfactory to me -- especially in that fighting-men are not differentiated from other PCs (nor even from common serfs) until level 4. For all his combat training, fighting experience and weapon expertise, and a 3rd level fighting man is still no more accurate than a lowly Kobold. As a result I have often used "smoothed" variations of the attack matrices to address this complaint... The tables on the AD&D DM Screen do smooth out the numbers more like that. However, it still has monsters as much more accurate than PCs, especially at lower levels. I’m actually okay with that, as in AD&D the PCs generally get boosted from higher strength/dexterity, magical weapons, bless/protection from evil, etc. A lot of that is true in OD&D, especially with Greyhawk. It works well from a game balance perspective to give monsters a built-in advantage, because, let’s face it, they already have a rough time. Regards. |
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Post by Haldo Bramwise on Apr 11, 2010 18:27:12 GMT -6
I think it is just natural for the big jumps at 4th (Hero) and 8th level (Superhero). Yes, but by the book fighting-men advance at levels 4, 7, 10, 13 and 16. So if the majority of your play tends to be toward the lower end of the spectrum (levels 1 to 3, say) then your fighters are really no different (attack matrix-wise) to any other character -- including ordinary men and sewer rats! I guess I like to think of my fighting men as a "cut above" the average dogsbody Right. That's why 4th level fighters are Heroes, 8th level super heroes, etc. I like the everyman flatness of the fighter in the 3LBBS until they reach 4th level. By then they should have performed a few heroic actions (killed a few scary monsters) and stories of their ability are starting to spread. But hey, that's just me. There's nothing wrong with the way you like it at all. or at least |
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The result is as follows...